A guide to finding the right-talent for your brand.

Commical – Episode title: A guide to finding the right-talent for your brand

Published 10/09/2020 on Chasing Albert website, spotify and apple podcasts.

Marie 00:00

We don't just send messages using our words. We send messages with our choices. That can be the way we do business, right through to the images you choose to use on your website. This week, I speak with Taryn Williams, CEO of The Right Fit. The Right Fit is an online marketplace that helps businesses find professional models, actors and many other types of talent needed to create advertising or marketing content. Taryn is a highly decorated business leader who, in this episode, shares how an organisation's choice of talent can have a positive impact on their brand and society in general. Oprah, Steve Jobs and Andrew Denton - to me, these guys are masters of communication. The rest of us, well, mainly you, because I'm a pro, fumble our way through. Commical examines this funny little thing called communication that can either tear us down or make us soar. Join me. I'm an amateur comedian and a communication expert. Join me and listen, learn and laugh through the experiences of my very talented guests. Hello, Taryn.

Guest 01:09

Hi, how are you?

Marie 01:09

I'm good. How are you?

Guest 01:09

I'm good. I'm good. Thanks for having me.

Marie 01:13

I'm really excited about having you, because I read about you quite a bit and all your amazing achievements. Now I have you all to myself for the next 20 minutes or half an hour, and so I'm feeling very lucky. Thank you so much for joining me. Taryn, tell us a little bit about The Right Fit.

Guest 01:31

Absolutely. So essentially, it's a two-sided marketplace for creative talent. We connect brands, advertising agencies and PR agencies with all different kinds of creatives - models, actors, influencers, photographers, videographers, the whole nine yards, pretty much anything they would need to bring a creative campaign to life. There's probably just over 13,000 talent on the marketplace now throughout Australia and Southeast Asia. The idea is that it streamlines the process. Think of it like an Uber for on-demand talent that are fully vetted and screened. We look after all of the admin, payments and insurances in the background, just the same way that an Airbnb or an Uber does, and it allows those parties to connect really quickly, efficiently and effectively, directly.

Marie 02:16

And is it just for ads, or can it be used for any kind of content, for example, a website or a brochure?

Guest 02:23

Pretty much any kind of content. If you're looking for a videographer to create a homepage explainer video, you can use it for that, or for influencers to amplify content online. So really, a whole different mix. If you jump on the case studies tab of our website, we built it to really trigger some ideas of all of the interesting things that we've seen clients do over time, even booking new headshots for their LinkedIn profiles. So yeah, really used for anything.

Marie 02:50

Okay, if I was a smaller business and I'm thinking, okay, well, I need images for my website, why would I choose to create my own versus stock images, for example, just buying the photos online?

Guest 03:02

I think at the moment it's so important to have visual images that tell the story of your brand, and consumers really need a way to engage with your brand to understand who you are. I just don't think stock images or stock video do that. Given that the cost of creating your content now has come down so much, even if you're doing it with a mobile phone and snapping some flat lays of your product, you can create really great content at a fraction of the cost that it used to be in the good old days. So I really just don't think there's an excuse anymore for not having your own custom images. Usually what you release of your brand is so important. It really shapes how potential customers view you and perceive you. So it's something that you really should take control of and carve out a bit of time, energy and resources to create beautiful content that you're really proud of.

Marie 04:00

You say you need to take your brand seriously and find talent that kind of tell your brand story. But how does a brand do that? What is the process to defining the perfect fit when it comes to talent with a brand?

Guest 04:12

If you get really clear on what your brand values are first, I think that's first and foremost. You would totally know that coming from a PR and comms background. If you don't know who you are as a brand, then it's really hard to tell your brand story. So first and foremost, sit down and figure out what your core values are as a brand, how you want to be perceived by your potential future customers, and then who this particular campaign is talking to. Who are the target demographics? Who is that audience? Where do they live? On what channels? And what content do you need to engage them? Is it static content? Is it long-form blogs? Is it videos? And on what channel? Is it on Facebook? Is it going to be on LinkedIn? Is it going to be on your own newsletter or EDM? Once you carve those things out, it becomes a lot easier to start to break down the talent you need in your campaign. From there, you can say, okay, we want to shoot a video clip. We know that our target customer is a mum in her early 40s with teenage kids who's time-poor. Let's create content that is going to appeal to her. What sort of creative story can we tell in a way that's going to entertain her or add value to her life? Because I really do think that all content is a value exchange. You're asking that customer to part with some of their time, energy and attention to engage with your brand, so you need to be giving them something in return, whether that is entertaining them or informing them, but adding some sort of value to their life. I think when you start thinking about that as a brand, it can become really easy to come up with really great ideas. We saw a lot of brands during COVID doing interesting things, creating at-home workouts for their customer base, or cooking recipes and home makeover tips, and things that were allowing them to continue to communicate with their customers in a way that was relevant and added value and wasn't just, 'Buy some more product from us,' at a time where maybe that wasn't quite the right message. Work out what your brand values are, work out who your target audience is, and then how you can add value to them.

Marie 06:15

What about finding the actual talent that you're going to use and selecting that person? I mean, you use the example of your target audience might be a mum with teenage children, so okay, that narrows it a bit. But what does this mum look like? How do I choose what that mum looks like when I look through the talent that The Right Fit would put forward to me? How do I choose?

Guest 06:36

The great thing is that you can post a call-out to the marketplace. You can say, 'I need a mum who's got teenage kids that are between the ages of 12 and 15, and I want the whole family in the shoot, maybe my mum and the kids, and they need to live in Prahran or Potts Point, and they need to be available on this particular date, and I have this particular budget.' You get to set a budget as the brand, which is really, really different. Normally, you would go to a modelling agency or an acting agency and you'd be quoted. This way, you get to say the budget that you've got to work with, and then people apply directly to that job listing who are available to work with you. Then you can go through - there's so much information on their profile. You can read their bios, check out their social channels, look at their Instagram, Facebook and YouTube channels. Probably the most powerful part is you get to leave and read their ratings and reviews. Think of it exactly like Uber. You can actually go through and see what other campaigns this talent has worked on, the star ratings they received from that brand, and the feedback. So it really gives you that assurance that this talent has done a great job in the past and they're going to do a great job for my brand. You can view all of their professional portfolio images, and then you can chat with them. There's an inbuilt chat function so you can literally chat back and forth and get to know them a bit. You can ask them some questions, get them to learn a script if that's relevant for your particular product, and really feel comfortable with the process before you go ahead. In terms of physically casting someone, you can meet people for face-to-face castings. You can definitely get them to send through self-test videos or casting photos as well. Then from there, it's just a tough decision of deciding who you like best, which I think can often be the hardest part in casting. It's subjective.

Marie 09:30

How diverse is your talent base?

Guest 09:33

There's just over 13,000 talent on the platform throughout Asia Pacific. We do have talent all over the world, actually. We have talent in the US and in the UK, but predominantly I'd say 80% of our marketplace is in Australia and Southeast Asia. So yeah, it's quite diverse, everything from drone videographers to international fashion models to commercial actors to voiceover artists. We've hopefully got everything that brands could need, all in one place.

Marie 10:02

I didn't realise that you had videographers and photographers in your offering.

Guest 10:06

Yes, we do. We do, yes.

Marie 10:09

I had no idea. I thought it was just models and actors.

Guest 10:12

No, there we go. Models, actors, makeup artists. A great deal of our bookings are definitely for models, actors and influencers, and they're probably the most highly sought-after of the talent types. We have photographers and videographers too. We have clients who use the platform to pull their entire campaign together. They'll book a photographer to shoot the stills component, a videographer who's a DOP or director to shoot the TVC element, and then they'll have a makeup artist, stylist and their talent all booked from us. So yeah, it's amazing seeing those come to life.

Marie 10:46

There we go. Good to know. So now I'll ask you the diversity question again, because in my head I was thinking diversity from a physical perspective - if I wanted to hire a model, could I get models of all shapes, colours, sizes, abilities, et cetera? So from that perspective, how diverse is your talent base?

Guest 11:05

Oh my gosh, it is incredibly diverse. Our oldest talent on the platform is in their early 90s. We do allow children to have a profile that's managed by a parent, so you can book babies and bubs, mums and bubs, and teenagers. We have a huge range of ethnic diversity, which I think is amazing, and you can filter by ethnicity as well. It's obviously really important for brands to be able to showcase the diversity of their client base as well. When they're going to an acting agency or a modelling agency, it can be really hard to find that, but on our platform they can really easily search by different ethnic backgrounds, different sizes, different heights, different skill sets, and really craft that perfect campaign that showcases a real reflection of their customer base, which I think is really important, actually.

Marie 11:55

It was funny to me, because once we had booked this meeting, I started following you on Instagram and looking at what you've been doing, and I noticed I'd sent you this question about diversity. Then there was something that happened within your business where somebody was questioning diversity because a particular client had requested - was it Caucasian models? I can't recall now.

Guest 12:16

A Caucasian model, yeah, that's exactly right. It was trying to explain, I guess, the difference in our industry. Firstly, in the advertising, modelling, acting and creative industries, there are definitely some roles that require certain things. Sometimes they require a plus-size model, and so that brand needs to be able to ask for that. They need to be able to ask for certain sizing or certain height. They need to be able to ask for certain ethnicity, and they need to be able to ask for certain age, which some people find really shocking as well, because obviously in any other industry you really can't ask someone's age when they apply for a job role. But obviously in our industry it's definitely something that needs to be asked, especially for some campaigns where there are legal requirements, like alcohol advertising, for example. You have to be over the age of 25 to appear in an ad campaign. It's interesting seeing the differences, I think, between our industry and other industries where some of those things can't be asked or prescribed in a job role. I think it's interesting seeing how people are - maybe it's a little bit of that cancel culture that has been really topical at the moment - people really feeling aggrieved about things in society. I think it's really important that we all focus on things like ethnic diversity and supporting women in business. There are so many things that I'm personally very passionate about. But I think it's also important that we recognise which issues we need to be upset about and when. I think the message you were talking about that I shared on my Instagram was that someone was upset that our platform allowed people to post jobs for particular ethnicities. I think that is kind of not solving the problem of ethnic diversity. I think we need to focus on making sure that we call brands to account if we see brands not showcasing ethnic diversity. Absolutely. If you see any kind of brand or advertising campaign that you believe is not ethnically diverse, then by all means speak up and speak to that brand. That's the power of social media these days. You can get in touch with a brand and let them know that you feel maybe their advertising campaigns aren't inclusive. But don't get upset that a casting agent needs to cast specific roles for particular campaigns that may ask for things like size or gender or ethnicity or height or even skills, because I think that's not looking holistically at the entire campaign.

Marie 14:37

And I suppose as a client using The Right Fit, would I have the option to leave the box or the brief on ethnicity open if I genuinely didn't care?

Guest 14:47

Yeah, absolutely. You can say open to all ethnicities, and you can say open to all genders. You can say open to all ages. So if you don't have any requirements for those fields, absolutely, you don't have to complete them.

Marie 14:59

Interesting. What do you see from the back end? Do you see whether or not clients are approaching things from a diverse perspective and trying to be really inclusive in their campaigns?

Guest 15:09

Yeah. So I also own a modelling agency called Wink Models, and it's something that I've seen over the last four years: a really strong shift to making sure there is ethnic diversity, age diversity and skill-set diversity represented in people's ad campaigns. For example, Wink has models who are in wheelchairs, and they're frequently booked for campaigns. I think that's fantastic. I can't think 10 years ago, when I was still running that business, that you would see a model who was in a wheelchair being booked for a campaign. It just wasn't ever requested or sought after, and it certainly is now. We definitely see a number of plus-size models being requested, and not just for what a few years ago was traditional plus-size work for plus-size brands. They're being booked for activewear brands, for ecommerce, for things that had traditionally not been looked at as suitable for someone who was plus-size. I think we're making amazing strides in the right direction.

Marie 16:05

That's so good.

Guest 16:06

Yeah. I think most brands are really cognisant of it, and I think it's really great that consumers get behind that too. When they see something done well, I think they should absolutely champion that, because I think that's what makes the difference. You vote with your hip pocket. If you see a brand who's doing it well and that you really believe in, then get behind them, support them, champion them, share their work, buy their products, because I think what we need more of is positive affirmation and positive change.

Marie 16:27

I think so.

Guest 16:28

No, it's definitely come a long way from the good old days.

Marie 16:39

Well, I remember The Iconic did a campaign - I can't remember the specific details - but I remember it was on the beach and it included models of all shapes and sizes. I remember thinking, that is awesome. I'm totally going to shop at The Iconic way more, although nothing ever fits me, so constantly I'm like, okay, great, you've got the amazing, diverse bodies, but you've got nothing for short arses. Thank you so much. But, you know, I try to support them. They've got to work on that. I can only buy their shoes. With Wink Models, you would pick and choose who you would bring on board as a model, whereas on The Right Fit anybody can sign up. Is that right?

Guest 17:23

So we still vet every profile at The Right Fit, so they have to apply to join. Depending on the category they fall into, obviously for models we'll check their experience and portfolio, for videographers we'll check their showreels, and for hair and makeup artists their qualifications and experience. We do vet every profile. We've actually turned down about 60% of people that apply to join the platform. We get over 250 applicants a day to join the platform, so it is quite a process going through, vetting them all and approving the profiles into the platform, because we understand from a client's perspective that they still want high-quality professional talent. This isn't a Gumtree or Craigslist type scenario where you're getting an amateur, aspiring creative.

Guest 18:17

Whereas Wink is a full-service modelling agency, so they only look after models and influencers, and yes, they definitely choose who they bring on. They represent about 600 models Australia-wide on the books there now.

Marie 18:34

Wow. And what are the top five mistakes brands make when choosing talent? And by talent, I mean modelling or acting talent in content for ad campaigns, websites, et cetera.

Guest 18:46

Okay, I definitely think having a casting is really important if it's a role that requires specific fit. So if you need specific clothing, then you should definitely be having a fitting, because a size 8 in one brand can definitely not be a size 8 in another brand. I think having in-person castings and fittings is really important. If you can't because of COVID, then at least make sure you're getting up-to-date digitals, just natural photos of the model or the actor, and a showreel if it's an acting or speaking role, so you're comfortable with how they speak to camera, how they present. All of those things are really, really important, obviously, if you're having a speaking role. But it still surprises me that people cast speaking roles without having heard the person speak.

Marie 19:45

Definitely, yes. Amazing. Yes. Okay, yeah.

Guest 19:50

I've definitely had a client, probably about five years ago, book someone and then go, 'Oh my gosh, I didn't realise they had a French accent.' This was a speaking role. Like, gosh, you never told us. We could have told you that he had a French accent, or maybe you could have actually got him to speak when you auditioned him. Definitely check things like tattoos and piercings. If you're casting from comp cards, they won't always obviously show those, but if you have a role that requires - especially for TVCs - someone wearing a short-sleeve T-shirt and they've got a sleeve tattoo, and that's not okay for a corporate brand, then make sure you're checking those things at the castings. Then put together really clear briefs. The more information you can empower your talent with, the better. Anything like reference images, mood boards, the looks that you're trying to achieve on the day - the more that you can provide to them, the better. And get really, really clear about what you need them to bring on the day. Things like, do they need to come with their hair and makeup done, or have you got hair and makeup artists coming? If you do have a hair and makeup artist, do you want them to come with no moisturiser on? Do you want them to come with their hair washed or not washed? Do they come with a manicure or nude nails? Do they need to bring any wardrobe items? Pretty standard ones for girls are a beige bra and beige G-string, all of those things. Just make sure that you really empower them with that information so they can come to set all prepared, ready to go, and there's no last-minute panic on the day of, 'Oh my gosh, I forgot to ask that model to bring high-heeled shoes,' or anything like that. So just try to think about preparing all of those things in advance and give that to the agency or to the model directly using The Right Fit platform, so they're all ready to go and you can have a super seamless shoot.

Marie 21:45

Are there any biases that still exist, or any kind of preconceived ideas about what a particular look might communicate about your brand if you were to use that particular model? For example, I have very big curly hair, and I remember when I did TV back when I was younger - a much more attractive young lady - one of the things people constantly perceived you as when you've got curly hair is that you're informal, that you're a little bit silly, a little bit fun and not so serious. Does that exist in the modelling world when people are choosing models?

Guest 22:18

I definitely think there are still some stereotypes. When we see brands casting mums, for example, they generally want them to be dark-haired. They want them to feel a little bit more girl-next-door, casual mum, brunette, not platinum blonde, no sort of crazy hair, no pink hair or anything like that. They definitely do still look for that, and that probably comes down to body size as well. They don't want them to be too slim, whether that's just not seen as too unattainable maybe for their customer base, but they want them to be probably a healthy size 10 if they're going to be playing a mum role, despite the fact that mums come in all shapes and sizes, as we all know. So there are definitely a few of those things that still exist. And look, I think brands are trying to get better at not stereotype-casting particular roles, not having the person in the technology shop in an ad campaign being Asian, or having the teacher always being a female, for example. I think they are definitely getting better at that. We've actually seen a lot of clients really breaking the mould and casting same-sex couples for really hero brand campaigns, which I think is fantastic because it's so representative of Australian society these days. Not all nuclear families are one mum, one dad and two kids. There are so many more makeups these days. Look, I think brands are trying, and I think the best thing that we can do as consumers is support them. There was a Huggies ad, maybe two or three years ago now, where it was a father changing the nappies and completely heroed in the whole campaign. There was a little bit of consumer doubt over that, you know, 'Is this right? Is this just doing this for publicity?'

Marie 23:40

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Guest 23:43

I think we really just need to get behind them and say, 'Hey, it's great.' They had to take a risk at some point in this brand's journey and they've decided to do it and step away from just showcasing mums. Let's get behind them. Let's support that. Let's buy their products. Let's share their social content and not make it anything more than that, because I think that's when brands get fearful of taking a risk, and that's exactly what we don't want.

Marie 24:07

And isn't it funny that we call it a risk? What's so risky about having a dad change a nappy? They do.

Guest 24:14

Yeah, yeah. Totally agree with you. Totally agree with you. They can showcase all parts of life, not just the bits that we're used to seeing on television or in ad campaigns.

Marie 24:26

I hope we see more of it personally. I really do. I hope we see an ad where there's a mum. I don't care what hair she has or whether she's a healthy size 10, but I think brands need to be realistic. Mums don't walk holding their child's hand, looking at them lovingly. They're dragging them and they're screaming, and they're fighting every urge not to pinch them and say - I'm waiting for that day.

Guest 24:53

Yeah, I so agree with you. And you know what? I think the brand that does that will just absolutely earn consumer trust and respect, because it's telling a real story that is showcasing our lives. It is not making us feel guilty about not being these perfect mums that hold our kids' hands walking down the street. It's showcasing that it's okay to be real. This is a brand that understands you. I would absolutely buy that product.

Marie 25:19

Me too. I'd be there in a heartbeat. Now, my final question for you is, a lot of my clients, when they typically are choosing somebody to work with, put so much emphasis on, 'How big is their social following?' To me, I'm like, chill out. Let's focus on what we're getting them for. Are you using an influencer, or are we trying to find a model for a campaign or an actor for a campaign? Is this something that you see all the time, and is it something that should be of importance when you're casting somebody for either an ad campaign or any kind of campaign really that's not an influencer campaign?

Guest 25:56

No, I absolutely agree with you. It's something that has become very prevalent in campaigns, people asking, 'How many social followers does this model have?' On The Right Fit all of their social channels are connected, so we definitely do see those with more social following getting more bookings. As you touch on, it's not necessarily for influencer work. So I think there's a few things at play there. There's a little bit of social proof. You're choosing someone that, let's say, 100,000 other people have said is good. This person has 100,000 people that like them, watch their content and have said that they are a good-looking model, or whatever it might be, or a talented actor. Therefore that makes me, as a brand, feel more reassured that I'm making a good decision, because 100,000 other people that follow this person have told me that's a good decision. So I think there's a little bit of that at play. It's a little bit of a safer choice for a brand. I think there's also the hope or expectation that they're going to get some sort of coverage from it, whether that's the model sharing the final photos on her social media, or him or her doing behind-the-scenes content on the day to get extra exposure for the brand. So I think sometimes there's a hope or expectation that will play a part in it. And then there's just a misunderstanding, exactly as you touched on, that actually you're engaging someone to be an actor in a campaign or a model in an editorial lookbook. Their social following is not something that needs to be considered. It's not relevant to that job role. So I think it's about getting back to the crux of what it is that you're actually trying to achieve. If you're looking for the best editorial model for that job, or the best actor, choose that person for the right reasons, not because of their social following.

Marie 28:55

Would that factor into the agreement upfront, or is it something that you just kind of, on the side, try and pressure them to do on the job? 'Hey babe, you look great in this photo. You should share this.'

Guest 29:12

There's definitely a little bit of that. Especially on fashion shoots, and in fashion campaigns and hair and beauty and makeup campaigns and things like that, there's definitely the hope that the model will want to capture their day-to-day life, or the influencer will want to capture his or her day-to-day life, to showcase them getting their makeup done, or being behind the scenes on set, or even taking some of the items home that they've been gifted from the shoot. So there's definitely a part of, okay, this will help us build a relationship with this influencer that may extend beyond just this immediacy of the photo shoot. And of course, a lot of influencers do share the final campaign images that they appear in because it's good for them. It's sort of a mutually beneficial situation. Ideally, they love the images they look great in, and they want to share them and they want to talk to their audience about their real life, which includes being a model and being in this campaign. So there is kind of a hope, but there isn't a contractual agreement for the talent to do that, to share anything. If it is something that you're wanting as a brand, then make sure you have that conversation upfront. Make sure you detail it in your brief and list it in the contract, just so everyone's really clear upfront and there's no awkward conversations or bad blood after the fact.

Marie 30:29

Thank you so much, Taryn. I've actually learned a lot about you and your business that I did not realise before.

Guest 30:37

It was so lovely to chat, and yeah, I really look forward to working with you more.

Marie 30:43

Yes, well, you'll receive my model submission shortly after. Please approve all photos. I love it. Just put me in a category, you know, kind of overweight, depressed mum with a moustache. Click here. I do it pretty cheap too.

Marie 31:03

I wouldn't charge much. I'd be happy to just add model to my bio. I don't really care what kind of model, but it would be nice to do.

Guest 31:10

I love this really authentic mum. We'll work on it. I love it.

Marie 31:15

Thanks so much, Taryn, for your time. I really appreciate it. I know you're super busy.

Guest 31:21

My pleasure. It was so nice to chat.

Marie 31:22

Likewise. Thank you. Bye. And that's Commical for this week. If you'd like to join the show, suggest a topic or ask me a question, hit me up on Instagram at marieledgar, or email me comicalpodcast@gmail.com. Thanks so much for listening. See ya.