The workplace of the future

Commical – Episode title: The workplace of the future

Published 11/10/2022 on Chasing Albert website, spotify and apple podcasts.

Marie 00:04
Businesses big and small are grappling with how to get people to come back to the office. Truth of the matter is, times have changed. Work has changed, and what we want from our workspace has changed too. My guest today is Angela Ferguson, co-founder of Future X Collective, one of Australia's leading workplace design consultancies. She has 20 years of experience working with a diverse range of corporate clients across Australia, Asia and New Zealand, and she brings great insight into what the workplaces of the future really need to look like to be successful. Spoiler alert: it's more than a fake green wall and a fridge full of wine. Welcome, Angela.

Guest 01:00
Great to be here.

Marie 01:01
So great to have you. Such an interesting topic. I know that you specialize in workplaces and creating workplaces that are collaborative and productive. It's been really interesting post-COVID, the raging debate of whether or not people will come back to the office, and why they should come back to the office in particular. The Productivity Commission in New South Wales has come out saying that it's costing us in terms of innovation, and people should come back at least three days a week into the office. How has that been measured, and what is it that you've seen?

Guest 01:25
Yeah, look, the thing that I've seen is there's a slowing of pace in terms of business, in terms of decision-making and getting things done. And I think that's what the Productivity Commission is equating to, that lack of innovation, because the momentum has changed. And in some ways, I think that's really positive because the pressure we were under in 2019, and the pace of business that we were working at before the pandemic, was escalating. Something had to give, right? It ended up being the pandemic. But I think the big thing is that momentum of business and moving forward just hasn't ever got back to anything like what it used to be.

Marie 02:06
Are you starting to get the sense from the clients that you work with that, from a business perspective, that's exactly what they want to do, and do it fast?

Guest 02:15
Yeah, a lot of clients we're working with want people back in the office, not necessarily five days a week, but there is that recognition that when we're physically together, things happen that can't happen online. One of the things I heard during the last couple of years was that when we're physically in a room together, we sync our breathing. So when that happens, the conversation flows. And when the conversation flows, that's when the ideas happen and new collaborations are generated. So I think there's a lot of intuitive thought about getting people back to the office so some of those sparks between people being physically co-located start to happen. And you can't do that sort of stuff online.

Marie 03:01
How can businesses start to get people back? I read somewhere, and this really resonated with me, that people under 30 and people over 55 were happier to go back into a city or a CBD, or an office in general, but people in the middle were more reluctant. And that's where I fit. I'm the person in the middle. And for me, I don't think wild horses could bring me back into a nine-to-five office job, simply because it suits me better with young children not to travel. It's really as simple as that. What are your thoughts?

Guest 03:37
Yeah, look, I really think you've got to start treating people like adults. People pay rent, they have mortgages, they manage families. I really think there's got to be some ability for people to make their own choices, but at the same time there's got to be a framework and a kind of loose structure around the expectations. So that balance is really hard to achieve. A lot of the clients we're working with don't want to mandate anything. They just want to attract. So to attract people, you have to work super, super hard to actually get people to come in.

Marie 04:11
Is the solution for one business the same as the solution for another?

Guest 04:15
Absolutely not. It's so different for every business. And everything I've seen, too, is that it's culture-driven. So if you've got a really rigid culture where what leadership says goes, they're the ones demanding people come back to the office five days a week with no flexibility. The ones that are a much more collaborative culture, much more people-focused, are the ones that are experimenting and trying different things and seeing what works, and taking people on that journey of what the future of work really looks like for them. Because that's the thing too: it will continue to evolve. It's never going to be static.

Marie 04:53
So what are some of the things that you've noticed, or your clients have noticed, are working?

Guest 04:58
I think a good example is probably what we've done in our studio, because we experiment on ourselves first before we experiment on everybody else. Even before the pandemic, we worked really hard on our culture, so we focus on culture. What we initially did was let people decide for themselves when they would come into the office and when they wouldn't, and that didn't quite work, because the way we work as a business is very collaborative. We're project-based and team-based. So then we started to put a structure around that, and we tried lots of different things during the lockdowns. Earlier this year, when things started to settle down a bit and we started to see that this is okay, this is kind of what the future is looking like now, we said we'd like you in the office three days a week. You choose which of those three days they are. If possible, we'd like you to come in on a Thursday, because that's when we do Thursday night drinks and a pin-up session and team building. But obviously, if something's happening at home and you need more flexibility than that, let us know. And if something is happening in the office that we need you in for, we'd like you to be flexible around that. So it's just been this give-and-take process, and it seems to be working really well. I'm really happy with the way it's going. I think everyone's been really open and transparent and really committed to making this work.

Marie 06:32
And how many? How big is your team?

Guest 06:36
We're about 20. Whatever we've done in that team of 20 is similar to the size of teams within businesses, give or take. So what I'm finding with my clients is that it's really driven by the team, how that flexible working policy works. An accounts or finance team, for example, because they're not so collaborative typically in the way they work, can possibly work at home more often than, say, an innovation team or an R&D team that actually sparks off each other.

Marie 07:08
So are you saying that for a company, because your business works with a lot of big organizations like Brother and Carsales, are you suggesting that the way of the future for a company isn't to look at it as one policy for a business, but rather look at what works best for the teams?

Guest 07:26
Yeah, exactly. A lot of companies I've worked with have an overarching flexible work policy, and then it's up to that line manager or the GM of that particular group as to how that gets implemented. That can cause friction too, right? Because somebody in one team might say, 'Look what that team's doing. I want to be doing that.' So there's a bit of flexible envy going on there. But I think it's a good thing, actually, because for a long time work has had such negative connotations. If you look it up in the thesaurus, the other things that say work are labor and toil and chore, and they're not fun things. Housework and homework aren't cool things either. So I feel like work's becoming more human, which is nice, and more appealing.

Marie 08:18
I had a conversation with my colleague today about the idea of the silent quitter.

Guest 08:23
Oh yeah, the quiet quitter?

Marie 08:25
The quiet quitter, sorry, yes. And this whole idea that if you're somebody who's just getting your work done within your hours, that you're quietly quitting. And I went, 'Oh God, well, as a business owner, I guess that's me,' because I've got very strict boundaries around what I have to do with the amount of stuff that I've got on. What's your view on it?

Guest 08:45
Yeah, I have real issues with that. And I think it's come from the US, right? Labor laws in the US don't have the Fair Work Act like we do. I think our employees in Australia are very well protected by the Fair Work Act. So there's that side of it, but then there's also, where are the boundaries? Like you say, if I want to just do my job, do what's in my job description, then I have every right to do that. But if I'm ambitious and I want to get ahead, I am going to go above and beyond, maybe do a little bit extra and show my leadership what I can do and what I'm made of. We've had people in our business over the years who have just done their job description, and we've respected that. They haven't wanted to move into director positions or move into senior leadership positions because they have other things going on in their life, and that's exactly what they want to do. So we've honored that. But then we've got other people who might want my job, for example, and I'm really happy to give them more and more responsibility, not to work them into the ground, but just to provide the opportunities that they're looking for.

Marie 09:57
Yeah, for me, I think there's a big difference between going above and beyond outside of work hours and going above and beyond within your work hours. It's still possible to overachieve without completely working yourself into the ground. Before I ask you about what the workplace of the future looks like, something that I wanted to ask you about is this optimum workplace experience. Can you tell me what that is?

Guest 10:21
It's a great question, and thank you for asking it, because it's my absolute passion. So my core skills are around workplace strategy and workplace design. And whenever we've done workplace strategies, it hasn't just been about what the workplace will physically look like when it has been designed and built. It's always been about how culture and leadership feed into the behaviors around the workplace. What does technology and agility look like? Can I pick up my laptop and move anywhere in my future workspace and be able to seamlessly plug and play? And how do we connect with each other? What is the health and wellbeing piece in the workplace? How ready are people for change? Are they change-fatigued, or are they ready for new experiences? And then, of course, there's the workplace strategy and the workplace design. So they're the six pillars that we think make up - or our experience has shown - if you want a successful workplace, if you want to tick all the boxes to create this really holistic experience of what work looks like for people, that's enriching and fulfilling and supports people in self-actualizing, then if you address all of those six things, and not necessarily get them perfect from day one, but if you're consistently addressing those things, then you're going to have an incredible workplace. And when I say workplace, I mean not just the physical space, just the whole experience of belonging to that organization, of doing fulfilling work, of connecting with colleagues. If you hit all of those six pillars, it's going to be an awesome place for people to work and an awesome company, a really successful, awesome company.

Marie 12:09
You mentioned before that no two solutions are the same, but to my simple mind I think, surely there's common ground for any business. What is that?

Guest 12:21
Yeah, I think the common ground is that before COVID, so Adventure Space, which is our architectural part of the business, interior is part of the business, we identified that there were three main reasons people came to work. They were to get focused work done, to collaborate with their colleagues, and to have some of those social interactions. The priorities were really about collaboration. The biggest complaint was about being able to get the focus work done, and then the social stuff was nice to have. Then post-COVID, or after COVID, we found that the main reasons people were coming to work were for the social connections. Collaboration was also really key, and a lot of the focus work could be done at home because people were already set up for working at home. So those things are consistent in terms of the reasons people go to a place to work that's not home or not somewhere else, but the priorities of those are what changed. That then has a knock-on effect for what the physical environment starts to look like. So if people are wanting to socialize, then those spaces, like those big cafes or kitchens or innovation labs or hubs, have become bigger and taken up more space within the workplace.

Marie 13:38
So is it the death of the office? Is that what we're talking about now? You know, the individual closed door that someone sits in?

Guest 13:47
Well, funnily enough, we are seeing a lot more of those one- to two-person small rooms, because conversations like you and I are having now are not great when they're done in the open plan. So people need those small rooms to be able to duck into, to do those video calls, to not disturb their colleagues, and to not be disturbed by their colleagues. So it's interesting. There is more built environment, a lot less desks, so a lot fewer rows and rows and rows of workstations, a lot more team areas and flexible furniture and collaborative zones, and a lot more of those small rooms. But they're not owned. They're all shared. There's a lot more shared space.

Marie 14:28
So then let's look to the future, very near future. I mean, God, how is it almost 2023 already? What does the workspace of the future look like?

Guest 14:39
And when you say look like, right, you mean physically and aesthetically look like?

Marie 14:44
Well, I mean anything, but let's start there so that we can be specific. Physically, what does it look like first?

Guest 14:51
Well, physically, it's kind of what I was just saying then. A lot more of those built, closed rooms, the smaller one- to two-person rooms, a lot fewer giant 30-person meeting rooms, because a lot of those board meetings or exec meetings are hybrid now. A lot less on-site training facilities, because again, that can be happening online virtually. And a lot fewer rows and rows of desks, because we are seeing people coming into the office, or the hub, or whatever you want to call it, to collaborate with their colleagues. And collaboration requires spaces that can be shared by people in settings that can be moved around, settings that include some technology but also include things like whiteboards. It's a lot messier and a lot less controlled. I think the workplace of the future is a bit more about an experience and a series of experiences, rather than this one static, singular purpose.

Marie 15:50
And what about in terms of what it physically looks like? Is there still an emphasis on - do people still want an environment that looks pretty and uses recycled timbers, et cetera?

Guest 16:04
Yeah. Well, usually we align the physical aesthetic with the brand. But whenever we talk to a client about what they want their space to look like, we start with what the purpose of the workplace is. Are they asking people to come in and collaborate? Are they asking people to come in and socialize? So then that has an impact on what it looks like aesthetically. It really is different for every organization. We don't tend to follow trend when we design. We don't have a house style. We don't have a typical look or feel. We actually really respond to a client. So for example, a financial services client is going to be a little bit more formal than a tech sector client. And so that then has an impact on, if they're in a commercial building for example, or they're in a warehouse, then the aesthetic starts to play out quite differently.

Marie 16:57
So that's aesthetically. What about the other softer aspects of a workplace? What are the trends for the future there?

Guest 17:06
I think the trends are really around people and culture. The businesses that I've seen that are most successful are the ones that put culture first and people first, and then everything else kind of falls into place around that. And so when I say look like, what I mean is how people experience working there. Years ago, we did some work for whatif.com, and they were in a commercial office tower and they wanted to move to a really cool, funky warehouse because their workplace didn't say anything about who they were as a business, how vibrant and energetic and obsessed with travel they were. They found a warehouse to move into, and then we designed this really interesting space that had lots of nooks and crannies that were like when you go exploring, when you're traveling, and you come across exciting surprise little moments in a city. So we built that into the design, and we used travel as a motif in the graphics, and played up the warehouse aspect of their design. So it really gave people a sense of the business and the brand and their values and everything they stood for. So that value piece and that purpose piece is really important for employees as well. So that's the sort of thing they're looking for in that future experience of work.

Marie 18:33
Do you factor in what the employee wants when you're building a workplace, and what does that process look like?

Guest 18:40
Yeah, so we do a really big engagement piece before we even put pen to paper and start to do any sort of drawing. We do leadership interviews, so we talk very strategically to leadership. We do these great online workshops that can be opened up to anyone in an organization. I've worked with companies that have 200 people, 400 people, 1,000 people, and we've had 60 people on these workshops at any given time, and they're interactive. We use this interactive tool where people can respond to questions about what they want to see in the future of work, and you see the results live on the screen. So it's an amazing way to get the temperature and to really understand what people are looking for.

Marie 19:25
Do you see a difference between what different types of people look for, be it by age or gender?

Guest 19:32
Demographically, if you start to group people into the generations, we do see different things. It's a little bit like what you mentioned earlier. The younger generations are really looking for that peer-to-peer mentoring and to be able to work alongside their leaders and learn from them. And then a lot of that older generation who are established in their careers are pretty happy working at home, because they've more than likely got their own setup. They've got their own room. They can shut the door. They're not sharing with flatmates, and they can work pretty self-sufficiently. They don't need a lot of collaboration with their team. So it does depend, I think, where you are in your career and what you're looking for from that experience of work.

Marie 20:20
And do you think that these trends also apply to smaller businesses, like, for example, the setup that you've got in your studio? Do you not have the desks and you have a big kitchen, and it's all kind of more set up for collaboration and social engagement rather than for focus work?

Guest 20:37
Yeah, we moved out of where we were in December last year. We had to move because our lease was up and they were renovating the building, so we had to get out. What we've done now is we've got fewer desks than people, and we have a booking system where, if you're coming in, you book a desk, you book your favorite spot. So you've kind of got that desk allocated to you for a day. All of our laptops and technology can kind of click in anywhere, and we're about to renovate. We moved into this space that was already fitted out, and it was a great opportunity, actually, because we could move things around, test and learn, treat it a little bit like this hackable space that we can play with and do what we want. So we experimented on that and tested a lot of our ideas. And we're about to build our brand new fit-out, which is exactly what we need in terms of the number of desks we do have, the big social space, all of those collaborative areas and spaces that we need, those one- to two-person rooms that we need, and the more formal boardroom. So we've got this great opportunity to build our ideal environment that's going to suit the way we work, and gives us the ability to probably fit another 15 people in, based on how the flexible policy is playing out.

Marie 21:50
Are you going to have any ping-pong tables and billiard tables, or are they a thing of the past?

Guest 21:57
Well, I've never understood them. I've always been so busy at work. I've never had time for any of that stuff, right?

Marie 22:02
Oh yeah, no, same. I found that the IT guys are always the ones that use them.

Guest 22:08
Yeah, and they're good for Friday night drinks or Thursday night drinks, but they take up a fair bit of real estate, and the noise of the ping-pong table in the middle of the office is a bit aggravating.

Marie 22:19
Agreed. Yeah, awesome. Well, thank you, Angela. Thanks for coming on. That was really interesting.

Guest 22:22
Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Marie 22:24
My pleasure.