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Commical - Season 3 episode 1 with Phil Sim

Published 29 May 2026 on the chasing albert website, Apple podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music and Youtube.

[Marie El Daghl]

Hi everybody, and welcome back to Commical. I know it's been a bit of a long break, but we're back with slightly different format and a wonderful first guest who you can see right here. Phil, hello, how are you?

[Phil Sim]

Hello, how is everyone?

[Marie El Daghl]

So Phil is the CEO of Influencing and the Media Connect Group. And anybody in just, if you've never heard of those before, you're obviously not in media or PR because they're both tools that the entire industry depends on in Australia day in and day out. Massive credit to you, Phil, for building something so amazing.

You've worked in media, journalism, and you've been an entrepreneur for over 30 years.

[Phil Sim]

Yep, I think 25 years this year for Influencing Media Connect and I was journalist for about seven years before that. So over 30 years.

[Marie El Daghl]

It's amazing, and actually over 30 years then when you were a journalist is probably when we met.

[Phil Sim]

Yeah, what do you mean? We go back a long way.

[Marie El Daghl]

Long way, and remind me where you were writing. I can't remember now.

[Phil Sim]

I was at IDG and I started on computer world.

[Marie El Daghl]

That's right. Were you editor there at one stage?

[Phil Sim]

No, so I was news editor and then I went over to network world where I became, that was my first editing job and then took over ARN, so.

[Marie El Daghl]

Amazing, I always remember you as being the one person we could have a really good, from a PR perspective anyway, you could expect a response, a direct one, and no bullshit. Yes was yes, no was no, work harder was work harder.

[Phil Sim]

I am pretty straight to the point.

[Marie El Daghl]

So that hasn't changed, huh?

[Phil Sim]

No.

[Marie El Daghl]

Has it served you well in business?

[Phil Sim]

Yeah, I think people appreciate clarity and so I think that the worst thing you can do is not be honest with people. If people get an honest answer from you, they generally appreciate that regardless of what it is.

[Marie El Daghl]

No, I agree with that completely. So I feel like I know you pretty well. Well, well enough as someone who's worked with you on and off over 30 years, but to help everybody else get to know you, I'm gonna ask you some quick questions, 10 questions, quick answers, first thought that pops into your head.

[Phil Sim]

That could be dangerous.

[Marie El Daghl]

It could, it might be. And I haven't told you these questions. So some of them you might go, what the hell is that?

But anyway, roll with it, okay? Work with me. Let's start light, dogs or cats?

[Phil Sim]

Cats.

[Marie El Daghl]

Do you have cats?

[Phil Sim]

I did have a cat as a kid. So yeah, I like cute.

[Marie El Daghl]

Yeah, I agree. They are cute. Okay, we'll know you're angry when?

[Phil Sim]

I stopped smiling.

[Marie El Daghl]

Okay, so you always smile pretty much?

[Phil Sim]

I pretty much have two modes, smiling or not.

[Marie El Daghl]

That's awesome. For me, it's talking or not talking. If I'm quiet, I'm pissed or confused, one of the two.

All right, first impression people have of you and are they right?

[Phil Sim]

I think you should ask the people having the first impression. I don't know. How do you tell what people think?

I don't, I think I've come across as pretty bubbly and friendly and I think I am pretty friendly. Yeah, people tell you that? Yeah.

[Marie El Daghl]

I can't even remember what I first thought of you, Phil, but obviously it wasn't terrible because I invited you on the podcast. A word or phrase you overuse?

[Phil Sim]

100%.

[Marie El Daghl]

Yeah, okay. I think that everyone of our generation probably says that 100%. The advice you were given that you once dismissed but live by now.

Is there anything like that? Could be business, parenting, anything?

[Phil Sim]

I don't know if I dismissed it. I came to appreciate it. So one of the things I was very fortunate when I was editing ARN, which is a technology business publication, was to get to interview a lot of entrepreneurs.

And Scott Frew, who was one of the bigger identities in Channel said, you need a vehicle to be able to do anything. There's no good having ideas unless you've got some type of vehicle. And I didn't get that until I started my own company and the appreciation of having something to action whatever ideas you have, that was probably it.

[Marie El Daghl]

Very true, isn't it? The role you would suck at?

[Phil Sim]

Anything related to attention to detail.

[Marie El Daghl]

You don't need attention to detail in your job. Come on. Well, that's what staff are for, is it?

[Phil Sim]

100%.

[Marie El Daghl]

Very true. True that is mine. What I say way too much.

True that. The last thing you asked, AI.

[Phil Sim]

I use AI a lot. I don't know if it's... I think the last thing I was doing with AI was getting feedback on a technology architecture plan I was putting together.

[Marie El Daghl]

Was it good feedback?

[Phil Sim]

We'll see.

[Marie El Daghl]

Time will tell.

[Phil Sim]

Whether it falls over or not.

[Marie El Daghl]

A hundred grand later on investment. And then you're like, shit, I shouldn't have listened to it. Have you ever lost it in a meeting?

[Phil Sim]

Yeah, so when I was made redundant, I bought. That was a turning point for me professionally and personally, because I was kind of on a... I thought I was a bit of a golden child at the company I was at.

And then to get the rude awakening that I was expendable, I cried and yeah, I lost it, so.

[Marie El Daghl]

Oh, Phil, you are amazing though. You won several awards and you were always highly regarded in the industry. It sucks when redundancies take place, hey?

[Phil Sim]

Yeah, so I kind of left journalism at that stage. So it was during the dot-com era. And like what was painful to me was like the strategy that we went down, I didn't agree with and I argued against and the strategy didn't work.

And I was a victim of the strategy I didn't really believe in. So that also, I guess, led me to becoming an entrepreneur and deciding that I needed to own my own destiny.

[Marie El Daghl]

How interesting. Did you think when that happened, shit, I should have just stayed in journalism?

[Phil Sim]

No, no. I love business. I love the thinking that goes behind just constantly trying to solve problems and just the first, I guess, as an editor, you are quite involved in the business anyway.

So I really enjoyed that side of it. And I kind of felt like I'd done a lot of what I needed to do in journalism. So yeah, it actually went the other way of going, I love this business stuff and I wanna do more of that.

[Marie El Daghl]

That's awesome. Blessing in disguise then.

[Phil Sim]

100%.

[Marie El Daghl]

Don't worry, Squadcast has a tool where I can just look up 100% and replace it with something else or cut it out. All right, just two more. What's a skill you have that has nothing to do with your job?

[Phil Sim]

Nothing to do with my job. I don't know. I have the ability to do a lot of stuff at a mediocre level.

So I play instruments really badly. I play a lot of sports, but not particularly at an outstanding level. So I have a broad skill base, but yeah, probably business and journalism is where I do well.

[Marie El Daghl]

Public speaking or colonoscopy?

[Phil Sim]

I love public speaking. I love it. Do you?

Yeah, yeah. So I think I got to do a bit of it as an editor and then when I started the business, so we do a big awards event. And for our first event, we hired Elliot Goblet, who was a- Oh yeah, gaming writer.

No, so he was like a deadpan comedian, delivered everything very deadpan. He used to be on Payday.

[Marie El Daghl]

I was thinking of Elliot. There was an Elliot who wrote in tech, right?

[Phil Sim]

Yeah, that was Elliot Fitch. So this is Elliot Goblet. And it didn't go down very well.

And I was like, I can do a better job.

[Marie El Daghl]

And so I posted- Oh, because comedy is so easy, eh?

[Phil Sim]

So I posted the last 23 awards after that. And A, I'm a lot cheaper and B, I do think I do a better job.

[Marie El Daghl]

That's true. And also everyone in the industry just loves seeing you up there. And you do do a good job.

I've been to your awards. Thank you. And I went to your conference as well last year.

That was a great conference.

[Phil Sim]

Yeah, yeah. We do events very well. And I think that's understanding your community and kind of what they need.

And that's the core to doing good events, I think.

[Marie El Daghl]

When's your next one?

[Phil Sim]

So we have our Tech Leaders Forum coming up in August. So yeah, that's doing very well at the moment. That's what I'm passionate about because I very much believe journalists do better journalism by having deeper understanding.

So it's all about journalists stepping away from the reporting to just learn and do relationships. So yeah, I always enjoy that event.

[Marie El Daghl]

So you're running a business, a big business. You've just launched in India. You've got a beautiful family.

You do a lot of things badly on the side as hobbies. And then a couple of years ago, something pretty big happened in your life. Tell us about that.

[Phil Sim]

Yeah, so too long didn't read. I found out I was adopted. So that was definitely a life-changing moment, one should say.

So I let her rocked up in the mail and opened it up. And yeah.

[Marie El Daghl]

So who wrote to you?

[Phil Sim]

So my birth mother's husband. So after my birth mother passed, the family had... So he was one of only three people I think that knew.

And so after my mother passed, he got the family together and said, this is the situation. Is everyone comfortable trying to find him? Took a long time for them to find me.

And, but yeah, eventually did. And so he wrote this big long letter. He surmised or thought I would have known that somehow, but I didn't know.

So when I read the letter, it didn't kind of make sense because he made those assumptions. So he started talking about your mother and this. I was like, that's not my mother.

And really initially just thought it was a scam and I'd actually put it back in the envelope and I was gonna return to send her. And yeah.

[Marie El Daghl]

And then?

[Phil Sim]

Well, then I started thinking about it and the phrasing and everything. And so they'd included some photos and like envelopes with photos in it. And one said, your mother, your siblings.

And so at that point, when I worked that out, I'd conclude it wasn't a scam. At that point, I thought, cause someone's gone to a lot of effort. It would have been a very elaborate scam at that point.

I thought they'd just got the wrong person. So that's why I was gonna package it all back up and return the sender. And as I thought on the phrasing that was used, I thought, are they saying I'm adopted?

Is that what is happening here? And so I opened up the photos and showed it to my wife and passed her a picture of my mother. And she said, Phil, that's your mother.

Like instantly saw the resemblance. And yeah, then I guess I had to start taking it seriously at that point. And my mind's doing, I actually remembered a time when I was in primary school and a rumor had gone around the school that myself and my sister were both adopted.

And I'd asked my dad. I said, dad, everyone's saying I'm adopted. And he said, what would it matter, son, if you were?

Good answer. And I didn't pursue it at that point. And I just thought that was fair enough.

And yeah, so that came back into my memory. And then I went into journalist mode and started researching and Googling and trying to find out if all the stories stood up and it did, so.

[Marie El Daghl]

Over what period of time was that? So you got the letter and you were researching. At that point, you hadn't contacted them back?

[Phil Sim]

No, no, so to the point, I guess I needed a primary source to confirm. So my sister's like 20 years older than me. So my assumption is my parents had my sister.

Weren't able to conceive after that. So eventually decided to adopt. So I called my brother-in-law, actually, and who, I was his page boy at their wedding.

That was like the age group. And he said, so I said, strange question, I know. But are my parents actually my parents?

And the phone just went silent. And I knew at that moment, I kind of my head dropped and that's when it all went, okay, this is real, so.

[Marie El Daghl]

Why did you ask your brother-in-law and not your parents or your sister?

[Phil Sim]

I'm not sorry, so my parents have passed away.

[Marie El Daghl]

Oh, I'm sorry, okay, yeah.

[Phil Sim]

And my sister's doing a little bit tough. So I thought he would be the most accurate and probably easier to ask given that he wasn't quite a direct family that would have known.

[Marie El Daghl]

And then what did he say when there was silence? Who broke the silence?

[Phil Sim]

He said, it's probably not my place to say. He said, and I said, who else knows? And he said, you're younger sister.

Sarah, my younger sister knows. Now that blew my brain because she's younger than me. And so I didn't know how she knew.

And that, and now it's something that my family has kept from me at this point, which was as much of a difficult thing to take on as just finding out. It was like, everyone's known this and not told me about it. And like, that still blows my brain today.

[Marie El Daghl]

How did those thoughts and feelings affect what you did next? Like, did you have to sit in them? Did you just go fire on and just do what you had to do?

[Phil Sim]

Again, I went journalist mode. So I just had to find as much as so-called my sister, called my nephew, called my, like pretty much. And at this point I'm really, everybody knows about this.

I'm literally the only one in, because I'm a very small family. My parents moved out from England and so left most of the family behind. So I kind of only got this, ironically, had this very small nuclear family.

And yeah, so it was about trying to understand the facts and understand. And so my, I guess, stepfather who wrote the letter, he had offered to come down and take me through it. He said, if you're interested in kind of finding out, he's happy to come down.

So I'm trying to remember if I called or texted him. I think I texted him back and said, oh, so that's what happened. So I texted him back and said, I received your letter.

I need some time to process this and I'll be in touch. And I guess when I look at everything, the fact that I took my time with everything is probably the thing that I'm glad that I did. I mean, it's probably as you get older, I'm quite impulsive, do things at the moment.

And I guess that never works out very well. So I've learned through a lot of trial and error, many, many errors to slow down. And I think that helped me a lot to process things.

And I only move when I was ready to move at any particular point.

[Marie El Daghl]

It's so funny you say that, because the question I was gonna ask you was, what would 20 year old Phil have done? Would he have had the wisdom and the experience to know that, hang on, I'm just not gonna say or do much right now until I figure out and get on top of my thoughts and my feelings.

[Phil Sim]

Yeah, I don't know. I barely remember 20 year old Phil. Yeah, I'd have liked 20 year old Phil to remember, to have known because I'd have got to meet my mother, which is just something that I won't ever have the chance to do.

But yeah, I have always tended to speak before thinking. So I probably would have not handled it as well.

[Marie El Daghl]

So then what did you do? Did you get to meet this family? Tell me about what the first communication with them was like.

[Phil Sim]

Yeah, so John came down and we met at a local hotel, had coffee, he told me all of the story. I think his first thing was, well, I'd be able to recognize you in a crowd. So there is very much a kind of family resemblance with my mother and her side of the family particularly.

And yeah, so yeah, he took me through that. He's a lovely, lovely man, like lovely man. And that gave me a lot of, I guess, took a lot of the fear out of the situation.

And he was like, if only I'd have known, I would have absolutely have adopted you if I'd have been had that opportunity. And it was so lovely, so.

[Marie El Daghl]

Oh, how sweet. Where was he? Where was your family?

[Phil Sim]

So they're great.

[Marie El Daghl]

Where were they in your birth family?

[Phil Sim]

So my family are Queensland farmers. So a little town called Mudaburra, which is literally the central, most central town in Queensland. So it's kind of North of Longreach.

So it's like, I guess that was the other thing to try and tell him is how different my life could have been. It's like growing up on a cattle station versus life down here in Sydney. They're completely different lives, you know.

[Marie El Daghl]

And John didn't know, like, when did John find out?

[Phil Sim]

So John found out not long after. So he'd been dating, I don't know. He'd been dating my mother.

He went overseas and then she ended up dating my father. And when he came back, they started dating again. And eventually she told him.

And yeah, so he said, you know, he said, I've known about you your entire life. And it's always been a regret of mine as well, that we kind of never got to know you, so.

[Marie El Daghl]

So then what happened, Phil? Did you tell me about, did you meet them?

[Phil Sim]

Yeah, so then we, so I found out just before Christmas. And so went up in early January and met the majority of my family.

[Marie El Daghl]

And that was- So did you just rock up or was there something? Was there a, hey guys, this is Phil? Like, did you call, text?

[Phil Sim]

Did you- So John organised, said, you know, if you're open to it, we'd love to have you up. Your brothers and sisters would like to meet you. And so, yeah, we kind of drove up with the family and walked in.

Your whole family?

[Marie El Daghl]

You took the whole family?

[Phil Sim]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, two of my children, my oldest son couldn't go and my wife. And yeah, that was one of the most nerve-wracking drives to a destination.

And then walking in, but yeah, also one of the most magical moments. At that point, so I met my eldest brother and my sister and both of them started crying. Oh my God.

And yeah, it was quite a, it was a lot in like the first couple of minutes that of meeting them and the emotion around that was pretty surreal.

[Marie El Daghl]

Could you plan for that? Did you plan? Did you have an idea of what you would go in saying?

[Phil Sim]

No.

[Marie El Daghl]

Or talking about, I'll share this, I'll ask that. Or did you just go, I'm just gonna take this one step at a time?

[Phil Sim]

Yeah, you know, obviously it was a big thing for the entire family because not everyone thought that they should make contact with me because obviously my mother had made a conscious decision to not tell people about me. So some people in the family thought that those wishes could be respected. So there was some, and that's been a kind of, I guess a complication that never kind of, that still is part of the situation.

And yeah, no, I, again, I was nervous, but I probably, I overthink everything. I probably didn't overthink that. There was, you know, my other favorite expression is it is what it is.

And I think I was able to very much take that mindset into that, however it played out, it was gonna play out. And not a lot I could do or should do probably at that point to influence it.

[Marie El Daghl]

So how did you feel walking in there? I bet anxious, scared, like how would you label it? What were you feeling?

[Phil Sim]

Yeah, nerves, as I said. But it's funny, I felt connected like almost immediately.

[Marie El Daghl]

Did you?

[Phil Sim]

Yeah, I did. Like, I don't know if that's me wanting to be connected or whatever, but I felt connected to these people almost immediately. And yeah, it was a really special, special, special day.

[Marie El Daghl]

How amazing. And you've gone on to find out, haven't you? That there's a lot more that connects you to your family than you thought, right?

[Phil Sim]

Yeah, so I guess the process has gone. So there's uncovering of a lot of things. So that's my mother's side, I've also had my father's side.

[Marie El Daghl]

And so- Is your father around still?

[Phil Sim]

Yes, yes, so I got to know him. So that was the big thing for me. So I guess I went through the whole experience being ups and downs.

My hardest day was Mother's Day because I had to grieve two mothers at that point. And I felt a bit guilty to my mom that I was grieving for another mom. And I think of all the periods that I struggled, that was the hardest.

And I was cognizant of that in terms of reaching out to my birth father because I was very close to my dad. And so I didn't particularly wanna rush into having that conflict again, and particularly because he was alive. And so it's very easy to react to something and just, and I feel I'm good at reacting to things because I problem solve well.

And so I've always rated my own ability to react to anything. But when I had to be the one to reach out and to make the outreach, that is so much harder. And it took me nearly two years to- Did it?

Yeah, so.

[Marie El Daghl]

Wow.

[Phil Sim]

That was both, again, dealing with that. And again, when I've talked about being patient and not doing anything until I felt ready. Yeah, and I felt ready in the most ridiculous way.

And it's part of my ADHD brain. I was having to be out in the backyard picking up sticks because we just had a windstorm and there were sticks everywhere. So I couldn't mow the grass until we'd done that.

And I got so bored of picking up sticks. I was literally looking for anything else to do. So I said, right, I'm gonna call my dad.

[Marie El Daghl]

That's brilliant. So are both your dads around or it's your birth dad now that you've- Yes. Okay, all right.

So you're picking up sticks and to get out of picking up sticks, you're like, yeah, I'll do something else. I'll just pick the biggest thing that I've been kind of mulling over for the last two years.

[Phil Sim]

Yeah.

[Marie El Daghl]

And you literally picked up the phone and called?

[Phil Sim]

Yeah. I mean, one of the things, so I kind of, again, journalist mode, found his phone number in a stock, because he's on the land as well. And so I found what I thought was his mobile, but I couldn't know it was his mobile because I didn't want to jump into, hi, I'm your son.

It's some other guy. So thankfully when he answered, he said, hi, this is Ross. And this is not the same.

And I went, apologies to drop this onto you, but I don't know any other way to do it. But I recently found out I was adopted and I believe you're my father. And he went, oh, right.

So all these conversations, I've gotten used to interpreting silences. So it was obviously a big shock and surprise for him. So I didn't know whether he knew about me.

So he did. And he said, I'd always wondered if I'd get this phone call.

[Marie El Daghl]

Was that the first thing he said after, oh, right?

[Phil Sim]

No, probably not. I think I introduced myself and he asked a few questions along those lines and asked about kind of my family and how I'd found out. And then he said, I think when I started to settle in, I said to him, I know, and he said he had never told a single person, not one single person in the world knew.

So I said, look, I think you should just go away and let it sit with you. And if I'd like to get to know you and if you'd like to get to know me, please get back in touch. And 48 hours later, he sent me a text saying he was keen to.

And then I got to meet him just after Christmas, almost same timing really.

[Marie El Daghl]

This Christmas? After this, so Christmas 2025. Okay.

Yeah.

[Phil Sim]

And that was amazing too. So he came, he'd seen his daughter who lives down South and on his way. So he lived in Armidale on his way through, he dropped in and so I had a good, good chat with him for a couple of hours.

And then my family came out and we had family lunch. Yeah, really nice. Lovely man too.

I've been really fortunate that I have really nice people.

[Marie El Daghl]

Oh, that's beautiful Phil. That's awesome. It took you two years to call him, but did you over those two years think about what you'd say if you did?

[Phil Sim]

Yeah. Those first words are like, how do you tell someone that you're potentially, no, I was almost, I knew he was my father. So it wasn't questioning whether it was the case, but it was like, how do you break that to someone?

So, yeah, I did think about that. And it was probably one of the things that, why it was two years, because I never quite felt comfortable that I had that down. So, and in the end I just said, I think going with, I don't know how to say this in any other way was very truthful of the situation because I had tried to think about how to say it.

You can only just, yeah, as we talked about right at the first instance, you just got to say things and be honest as you can, I think.

[Marie El Daghl]

And were those words what you thought and had planned to say, or did you have something big and elaborate and then you'd bounce to something else or did it just come to you in the moment?

[Phil Sim]

No, probably the last seven sticks that I picked up, I'd come up with a plan.

[Marie El Daghl]

That's wild. Did you think about, when you were thinking about what you'd say to your dad, were you thinking about the way John had wrote to you and the way he approached things and reflect on, well, that was big news. He did this right.

Was there anything you took from that?

[Phil Sim]

No, I think one of the things, I think as a journalist, and whether you're in the industries or I'm in comms and journalism, you put a lot of effort into trying to, you maybe delude yourself a little bit that the way you express something matters a lot. And sometimes the facts and what is the content of the message, just, it doesn't matter how you deliver it, it's more important than how it's delivered. And I think certainly in that instance, I don't think I, I think the fact that I just said it as it is, because it is what it is and it doesn't matter what words I used, they accounted for nothing.

I'm sure he has no recollection of those words that I used at that point. It's only- Well, it's the facts that are underlying, right? And I think when you, as a journalist, when you report really big stories, your job is almost to get out of the way of the story.

Let the story is what matters and the more you try and be clever or over communicate, just let the story be.

[Marie El Daghl]

Yeah, that's so true. I guess you call them facts. When I think about in my world, it's facts, it's the talking points, it's the proof points, it's the stats, it's the specificity.

The content is the specificity, not the necessarily the dressing or the creative way in which you tell it. Do you know what I mean? So for example, when I think about if I wanna get a message across or I wanna say something, I think about what the message is, but that's not what I'm saying.

That's what I wanna get across and people can understand what I'm trying to get across when I just present them with the evidence or the facts that prove that point. Does that make sense?

[Phil Sim]

Yeah, I kind of think of it as two parts of a process that are quite different. I think there's, I think when you learn something big and in that first instance, all you're trying to understand is what has happened. And I think as much as possible, as I said before, get out of the way of helping people to understand the facts and what has actually happened.

And then once people have settled with the event or whatever it is that you're trying to communicate, as humans, we then look for context. And then that's when you really have to start thinking about who's involved and what messaging they're gonna take out because there's acceptance and then there's making meaning and understanding out of that. And so I think, again, going back to journalism and classic journalism, the lead, and this has changed a lot these days, but classic journalism, the lead paragraph is just who, what, where, when, right?

That's what we got taught in journalism school 101, right? Because people just need to know the facts and then you can contextualise and bring in opinions and all of those things. And I think this was very much that, is just get the facts out there and then we'll think about what comes next.

[Marie El Daghl]

Did you give any thought to the context of your dad's situation, how he might feel, where he might be, what he might've known, what he might not have known? How much thought, if any, did you give to that?

[Phil Sim]

So I guess part of that was me fact-finding. So me wanting to know, did he know, understand how I came to be, not going into too much detail on that.

[Marie El Daghl]

There's a bird and there's a bee.

[Phil Sim]

But at that point I'm doing two things. I'm trying to communicate something to him, but I'm also wanting to understand myself. So again, I guess there's the, so this conversation went two ways, me trying to introduce myself, but also trying to get to know him and understand his life.

One of the things we did, was that we both, after we agreed we were gonna get to know each other, we both sent each other a great big long email with our respective life stories in it. And so again, that may sound as a very rather impersonal way probably to get to know someone, but for me, it gave me that understanding of the facts and the events and everything that then helped me make meaning of it in my own time, rather than if you're having a conversation and someone's telling you about their life story, you're struggling to make meaning and accept facts at the same time. So that two part process really worked for me, yeah.

And I think for him as well.

[Marie El Daghl]

So what did you learn? I know that there's some similarities, right? You've got some people in the media, is it on your dad's side?

[Phil Sim]

Yeah, yeah, so my aunt and uncle, both also lovely people. And so my aunt Pixie was the first one because so she'd adopted her child. And so she felt quite connected to the story herself, because she'd gone through an adoption on the other side of that.

And so dad said, yeah, yeah, auntie's really excited about the whole story and that kind of really wants, so she called up out of the blue and said, hi, it's Pixie. I'm like.

[Marie El Daghl]

How big is this family?

[Phil Sim]

That's sister, oh, right. And then my uncle Dave called and he came from very, and I so appreciated a very particular angle of thought you might like to know a bit about your lineage. And because like he'd found out and he knew quite a bit about the history.

And so he thought I'd be interested in these coincidences, I guess. So yeah, my great uncle launched Australia's first broadcast monitoring, like statistics and metric and kind of ratings and stuff. And I run a broadcast monitoring platform.

So it's like the same business, but literally 30, 40, 40 years ago. So that was wild. And then I think as you said, at the top of the program, we've been launching into India.

And so we're all involved in, so like I know all my Indian media now and all the newspapers and everything. And it's my father's father's father's father's father's mother's mother's mother's father's father was a missionary that went over to England and went over to India. And amongst the amazing work he did over there, he founded India's first native language newspaper.

And so I was just like, yeah, I found both coincidences wild.

[Marie El Daghl]

Well, both coincidences are wild, but what is also wild is you tracking down or finding out what your grandfather's mother's mother's cut mother, how many generations back did you go? How the hell did you even get that information?

[Phil Sim]

So my uncle Dave knew about that. So like I only had to look him up and then, but then I was trying to map the family tree and like, you know, when you go to school and in like kindergarten or whatever, and they say, do your family tree. And my poor grandchildren are going for one hell of a task when they get that.

That side of the family, there's like, there's a lot of ministers in there. So they all had very big families.

[Marie El Daghl]

What do you mean ministers? Like religious ministers?

[Phil Sim]

Like religious ministers, yeah, yeah.

[Marie El Daghl]

Oh, wow.

[Phil Sim]

So there's lots of divergent paths and stuff in there. So it was a very interesting family tree. And again, I had the most boring family tree in the entire world growing up.

It was like, one of my family tree, here it is.

[Marie El Daghl]

Three branches, there you go.

[Phil Sim]

Didn't take a lot of work.

[Marie El Daghl]

That is crazy. And so how are things now? Are you settled into your new identity, your new life, your new family?

[Phil Sim]

It's still an ongoing process. And like, as I said, like the complication of, you know, and one of the things that was the most complicated part of the communication side of it was appreciating, it's not just my story. Like, it's my mother's story, it's my father's story.

It's all the people that connected to those people that share that story. And, you know, my first instance as a journalist was just to write. And I did that and I'm very grateful that I took the time to just write my feelings.

And so one day there's a chapter in my memoir for sure on this. And I'll have those notes to go back to. But again, as a journalist, I just wanna break the news.

It's just like, where can I break the news? And I was a bit annoyed that Facebook was really the only canvas to tell the story because I'm not the hugest Facebook fan. But like, where else do you tell a story like that?

And I probably wrote four or five drafts of that initial post. And every time going, well, what's this person gonna think about it? And what's that person?

And, you know, going to your comms background where you've got multiple stakeholders, in this instance, there's different parts of the family.

[Marie El Daghl]

How is this gonna make them feel?

[Phil Sim]

Exactly. My family, how is my sisters gonna react to it? And that part of the family and my friends that have grown up around me and go, well, you know.

So having to think about the audience and break it down and try and be sensitive to all of those people and what they were all feeling was probably the most challenging part of it. And then like, that's been an ongoing process. And in some ways, everyone's conscious of that.

So it's just not like, here's Phil, he's part of the family. Everyone's kind of wants to treat it. And so I've almost stayed a secret in some ways.

It's like, news is getting out, but it's not like a big announcement. My brother, who's the eldest of my siblings, came down a month or so ago and stayed and spent three and four days with us. And we took him around Sydney and he's literally the nicest guy in the world.

And I connect with him so well. And then he went and put a big face on post on his socials. And it was almost like an acceptance for me that I can talk about this in a broader context.

So that meant a lot to me. And yeah, so it's been a very much ongoing process of reveals almost. I think when you reached out to me, I've been following your soap opera and it's literally felt like.

[Marie El Daghl]

Because I saw it on LinkedIn, it wasn't Facebook.

[Phil Sim]

Yeah, well, I guess. So I initially wrote to Facebook and of course you have this overlapping audience of friends and because my business is always being very community, it's very about, it's a digital business, but it's always had this human about making connections. So I'm friends with so many people that I work with and people I'm very close to.

And so I've got this overlap of people that, I know some people don't have those two worlds are different, but for me, they're very much similar. So after I put the message on Facebook, I had people asking about it and not sure if they could ask about it and uncomfortable part. So I thought, I'm just gonna tell my business network this story so it's out there.

People feel more comfortable doing it. And then, so I had to decide how to tell that story in a different way, I know, but didn't wanna do that. This is what I learned about B2B marketing by finding out the doctor.

[Marie El Daghl]

And this is what you too can learn and how to apply it to your business.

[Phil Sim]

So that one was interesting because like, I felt obliged in some way. So influencing has kind of pivoted to talk about, to about video being the most powerful mechanism of storytelling, right? So we tried to rebuild, we literally rebuilt our whole platform around video and to enable PRs and journalists to exchange rich media content rather than just words.

And it's been my like, my spiel on LinkedIn for the last six months. And so when I started writing and naturally I'm gonna write something, right? Because that's what I've always done as a journalist.

I've got, hang on, Phil, you keep talking about video. So make it a video content. So yeah, I just pressed record and told the story.

And yeah, I don't even wanna say it went viral, but it reached a lot of people. And it was, I very much believe in authentic communication. I think if I say both personally and the way I communicate, I just try and be myself because I don't know, to be honest, I don't know how to be anything else.

But so yeah, just pressing record and just telling the story. And I did kind of lose it halfway through a little bit. And, but you know, I think.

[Marie El Daghl]

You can't lose it now. Give me a clip to promote, but come on, let's go. Come on.

[Phil Sim]

Do it. I've done so well. Keep it together.

[Marie El Daghl]

Damn you for holding it together, Phil.

[Phil Sim]

You're not asking the right questions, Maria.

[Marie El Daghl]

I know.

[Phil Sim]

Yeah. So, you know, I had, well, it was interesting because like, again, and because my followers are journalists and PR people. So like within two days I had ABC Longreach call up and say, if you wanna.

And I didn't feel, I said, let me think about it because again, you know, that's putting the story out into my family's community. And without me having a lot of control over it. And so I wasn't ready at that point.

So you have the exclusive here, Maria. This is the first time I've.

[Marie El Daghl]

Okay. So there's two sides to this. I'll take the compliment and thank you for giving me the scoop.

But there's also the fact that you believe, well, no one's really gonna listen to this, right? So what's the big deal? Did you feel nervous about sharing this story or coming onto comical, even though it's a smaller audience?

Did you still think, oh.

[Phil Sim]

Yeah. Again, I'm very aware of the sensitivity. It's like, and you know, ultimately I wanna build a relationship with my family.

You know, that's, so when we talk about outcomes beyond any communication is secondary to me, wanting to explore this side of me and these people who are connected to me. So the last thing you wanna do is inadvertently say something that someone finds offensive or takes offense to. So that's always been very deliberate as to how I've communicated and so forth.

[Marie El Daghl]

That's awesome. Yeah. And I really love hearing that you factor in the different people that are involved because words do have power and the way you communicate can impact other people.

It's not just about, I'm just gonna go do something and tell a story and say the first thing that comes to my mind. It's about listening and understanding your audience, not just me as your audience or the listeners as the audience, but also the most, probably the most important audience to you, which is your family, if they were to hear it. Yeah.

[Phil Sim]

And I'm conscious I tend to have two communications modes. So there's Phil, the communicator, where I am very deliberate and I'm thinking through, and there's Phil, the blah, blah, blah, where I do not do a lot of thinking and I just talk and so this is kind of maybe in between the two.

[Marie El Daghl]

I think you've been really thoughtful. No, I think you've been, I think, maybe without you realizing it, perhaps you've been thinking so much and with so much care about how to talk about this that actually in many ways, you were very prepared for this conversation.

[Phil Sim]

Oh, I'll take that as a compliment.

[Marie El Daghl]

You're welcome. Are there cousins now in the picture? Do your kids have cousins?

Just how big have things gotten in your family?

[Phil Sim]

So when I went up to meet my siblings, I also met a cousin and he, that story is one of the most amazing. So he's also adopted and- Your cousin is also adopted? So my mother's sister adopted my- Okay, okay, yeah.

So my mother's sister's adopted son and he found out and was quite upset and to make him feel better, my mother told him that she had had a child and given him up and he didn't tell anyone, any of my brothers or sisters or anyone his entire life. And so when he got to meet me and he gave this like one of the most touching speeches I've ever heard in my life about how he'd known about me all his life and never been able to tell anyone and so for it now to come out and being able to share that with everyone was something that he just, was so grateful to have that opportunity. So yeah, there's all these stories that are like not even directly related and then when I said it's other people's stories as well.

[Marie El Daghl]

Yeah, that's so true. Why do you think your mom told, so she told him to feel better, right? Did he?

Did it make, like how, does he remember if it worked? What it made him think like, or what she said?

[Phil Sim]

Yeah, yeah, just like, you know, you're not alone. This is not, you're not like, this is something that happened during that time and yeah, so I haven't gone into how that made him feel specifically, but I have a great relationship with him too. Ironically, we were gonna, cause he does radio as a hobby.

So we were gonna do a podcast on this. If this works, we might have to pick that up.

[Marie El Daghl]

Oh, that's amazing. Phil, thank you so much for sharing your story with the podcast you thought no one would listen to. I'm gonna go out of my way now, okay?

To promote it. No, I really, I really enjoyed it and it's such a beautiful story and I'm so happy that you found yourself with two beautiful families.

[Phil Sim]

Yeah, no, it has been a gift and you know, in some ways, you know, losing my parents, it's probably five years earlier, that leaves a void, right? And so it's even more of a gift because that void of wanting family and has been filled and is overflowing.

[Marie El Daghl]

Well, I'm so happy to hear it. I'm so happy to hear it and long may it flow for you.

[Phil Sim]

Thank you, Mary.

[Marie El Daghl]

And your family. Thank you so much again. I appreciate it and I've loved having this chat and I'll continue to be watching your story unfold.

So please do share on LinkedIn. I'm hardly on Facebook. I think we are connected on Facebook, but I'm really on there.

[Phil Sim]

Yeah, I think probably Netflix is the next place it's gonna show up.

[Marie El Daghl]

Listen, if you beat me to Netflix, I'll be gutted, okay? That's like my dream. A standup special, surely someone out there will give it to me.

Someone, please. All right, mate. Thank you so much.

[Phil Sim]

My pleasure. Enjoyed the chat.

[Marie El Daghl]

I'm glad you did.