Performing under pressure

Commical - Season 3 episode 2 with Emma Lawrence

Published 1 July 2026 on the chasing albert website, Apple podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music and Youtube.

[Marie El Daghl] (0:03 - 0:34)

Hello everybody and welcome back to Comical. I am very excited to have a wonderful guest today, someone who has been a colleague of mine for a short period of time before she went on to have a incredible career in sports and recently made history becoming the first ever play-by-play female caller in rugby league history, Emma Lawrence.

[Emma Lawrence] (0:35 - 0:36)

Hello, thank you for having me on.

[Marie El Daghl] (0:36 - 0:37)

I'm thrilled to have you.

[Emma Lawrence] (0:37 - 0:38)

It's very good to chat.

[Marie El Daghl] (0:38 - 0:39)

It's been a very long time.

[Emma Lawrence] (0:39 - 0:43)

Hasn't it? I still remember my days working with you at Public City.

[Marie El Daghl] (0:43 - 0:45)

Do you reflect on them fondly?

[Emma Lawrence] (0:45 - 0:47)

I hope I was a good intern.

[Marie El Daghl] (0:47 - 0:49)

Best intern ever and became a lifelong mate.

[Emma Lawrence] (0:49 - 0:56)

Yes, it's been too long. Just even chatting about our kids and how far time just goes too quickly.

[Marie El Daghl] (0:57 - 1:03)

It really does. And then you left the little Public City family and went on to have this incredible career as a journalist.

[Emma Lawrence] (1:04 - 1:20)

Yeah, so I remember I was always, I think I liked too many things. I even before I picked my subjects for uni, I think I changed my mind eight times before the night before it was due. Maybe I should be a physio, maybe I should be a lawyer, maybe I should be a journalist.

[Marie El Daghl] (1:20 - 1:24)

I remember having a coffee with you and you were saying to me, I think I want to be a lawyer.

[Emma Lawrence] (1:26 - 3:57)

Yeah, so even once I was in something, even if I liked it, I still thought, I could have done this maybe. So anyway, I did the communications and my major was PR, which is why then I started to do some internships in PR and met you. I did some journalism electives as well because I always loved public speaking.

I loved doing the speeches at school, which no one likes. So I was definitely the odd one out there. I loved writing, but then yeah, I also sort of liked that maths side of the brain.

So once I finished the communications degree, I actually went back and started commerce and finance. So I only did that for a year. I did that at night time at Sydney Uni while I was working at a law firm.

I was working at Minter Ellison for 18 months. I was working in the business development team there, doing the commerce at night. And then, I don't know, I think I just, maybe I realised, oh, it's not, I think maybe in my head, I thought it was like Law and Order and like all of the shows, you know, you just, you think it's really sexy thing, but I mean, I liked the people and, but I kind of thought, I don't know, this is for me.

I probably am more suited to the writing and the speaking. And then I, funnily enough, I know a lot of industries, it's all about who you know, but I met at one of the West Tigers games when my brother was playing. I met one of the presenters at Fox Sports, just out of function, just had no idea who he was.

Met him, oh, what do you do? I'm Chris's sister, blah, blah, blah. I did journalism.

I think I want to get back into it. He said, oh, I work at Fox Sports. I can help connect you with the bosses there.

So I kind of all went from there. And then eventually I thought, okay, I'm just going to stop the commerce. I was a year in, so, but I don't see it as a waste.

I mean, maybe worth a bit of money, but it was still great experience. And I mean, working at the law firm was a great experience as well. I got to sit in with partners and senior associates in meetings and I was exposed to great things working in different teams, mergers and acquisitions team, private equity and stuff I found interesting, but it just wasn't probably, my passion was more with sport and I think with writing.

So I think I've eventually in a roundabout way got to where I'm most suited.

[Marie El Daghl] (3:57 - 4:08)

You were always super smart. And I could see that you wanted to do and try everything when you were younger. You know what I mean?

Like you just wanted, you had a thirst for learning.

[Emma Lawrence] (4:10 - 5:35)

I loved learning. It's a bit of a nerd at school. So I, yeah, I loved school.

I loved studying. I loved learning. I mean, I liked the social side as well on the sports side.

It was funny. I went back to my high school doing the New South Wales government have launched a new hub for teenage girls to try and get more girls into careers in sport in all different forms. So whether that's, you know, sports psychologist, sports physio, or they're just trying to provide them with different pathways.

I kind of helped them a bit with that, went back to my high school for the official launch. And just, just funny speaking to, you know, one of my old teachers emailed me actually and, and said, because she wasn't there at the time. And I was telling the story, she wouldn't let me go to one of the sports days in year 12, because we had double English.

And she said, no, your study should take priority. I said, but I want to go to this sports carnival. And I was really determined.

I said, wanting to get sports person of the year. So I liked both. So we made a compromise.

So I made a deal with her. So every morning for a week, for an hour before school, I had to come into the library and do English study for one hour, if she was to sign my form to go to this sports day. So yes, I was very determined, but I liked, I love sport.

I love study. So it's hard.

[Marie El Daghl] (5:35 - 6:05)

It's interesting that the government's trying to get more women into sport. I, my kid has just, my eldest has just discovered volleyball. I've always had them in sport, right?

They played a find their thing, their sport, my eldest, especially. And then she discovered volleyball. And every time she asked to do some kind of extra training or whatever, whatever, I'm like, nah, you're never going to be an athlete.

You're just doing it for exercise. Nah, it's not important. And she got really upset.

She said, hang on. It is important to me. I love it.

[Emma Lawrence] (6:05 - 6:05)

Yeah.

[Marie El Daghl] (6:06 - 6:06)

Yeah.

[Emma Lawrence] (6:07 - 6:29)

Well, I think, I mean, even though the girls were asking me questions about, um, you know, the value of sport, and even if you're not going to be an elite athlete, I feel like sport does teach you so many great life lessons. I mean, if you're in a team sport, definitely about working together, but even individual sports about how to handle losing and how to grow from losing those types.

[Marie El Daghl] (6:30 - 6:30)

I agree.

[Emma Lawrence] (6:31 - 6:50)

I think it's important. And then, yeah, it might spark your passion. If you then want to do something else in sport, maybe if you're not at the elite level, but you want to be involved, you could keep your passion going and work in the marketing team or now with social media, there's so many different roles in social media and sport and all the content online.

[Marie El Daghl] (6:50 - 7:18)

True that. And you know, I actually hate any kind of physical movement. And so, however, however, I love sports marketing and sports PR.

And I've done a lot of work. Like I worked on the Paris 2012 Olympic game bid. I led that.

I've worked with sports teams, et cetera, on comms training. I love it, but just don't ask me to move. That I'm not interested in.

[Emma Lawrence] (7:18 - 7:40)

But I think, I think lots of people that work in sport, I think have a passion for sport, but you don't necessarily have to be good at, need to have been good at sport in any way or continue to, continue to even work out. I mean, there are people who don't have an athletic bone in their body that I work with, but they like watching it.

[Marie El Daghl] (7:40 - 7:55)

You know, I've got to be honest with you, Em, I don't really enjoy watching sport either. No, I'm there for the chips and the vibe. I'm there for the atmosphere.

But my kids playing is a different story and I love watching them watch the Bulldogs play.

[Emma Lawrence] (7:57 - 7:59)

Oh yeah. Oh, so you haven't even been converted.

[Marie El Daghl] (7:59 - 8:18)

I used to be a Bulldogs fan, like growing up. And then I was like, yeah, what's this? I'd rather read or I don't know.

I wasn't, I just wasn't that into sport, but I come from a family of mad Bulldogs supporters. And so watching that, watching my kids get involved and get excited or get angry is just such a, it's such a joy.

[Emma Lawrence] (8:18 - 8:21)

They are the most passionate supporters.

[Marie El Daghl] (8:21 - 8:28)

You'd have to be the way they're going now. I actually said to my husband, like, are we ready to call it a day? Is it time to move on?

[Emma Lawrence] (8:30 - 8:41)

Hey, I support the West Tigers and we haven't made the finals in, I think since 2011. So it's the longest drought in the competition, but I think this year we'll make it. So.

[Marie El Daghl] (8:42 - 8:52)

Em, to help people get to know you, I'm going to ask you some quick fire questions. Okay. First thing that pops into your head and some of them are a bit silly, humor me.

Dogs or cats?

[Emma Lawrence] (8:53 - 8:54)

What? Just wait, is it one word?

[Marie El Daghl] (8:54 - 8:55)

It's up to you.

[Emma Lawrence] (8:55 - 9:29)

Okay. Dogs or cats? Dogs.

Dogs. Do you have one? I don't know.

I've only ever had dogs. We don't have one, but Harper loves dogs. My daughter is 18 months old.

Every time we go to the cafe, dog, dog. And she'll have a massive tantrum if she can't go over and pet it. But then she doesn't understand that you can't have some, cause some owners say, no, no, no.

You know, they'll probably growl at her or something, but yes, she loves dogs and I had two growing up. So yeah, I've just never had cats. Okay.

Definitely dogs.

[Marie El Daghl] (9:29 - 9:31)

What are you currently watching on TV?

[Emma Lawrence] (9:32 - 9:40)

Oh, I'm watching the sequel to A Handmaid's Tale, which is called The Testaments.

[Marie El Daghl] (9:40 - 9:42)

Oh my God. That is some heavy watching.

[Emma Lawrence] (9:42 - 9:45)

Yeah. I know. Did you watch A Handmaid's Tale?

[Marie El Daghl] (9:45 - 9:54)

I started watching it during COVID and I couldn't, I had to turn it off. It was too much for me. And then did a hard pivot into Korean dramas.

[Emma Lawrence] (9:56 - 10:28)

I watched it, I think after I had Harper, because, you know, I was sitting in the lounge a lot, breastfeeding and I think being a new mum as well, just, you know, having seen, you know, women not have rights and the children being taken away and I don't know, it's very heavy, but there's a sequel now, which yeah, was only just made and it's come out. So I think I'm today, the last episode of the season comes out. So maybe, I don't think I'll fit it in before I go to State of Origin, but anyway, I'll watch it tomorrow.

[Marie El Daghl] (10:29 - 10:32)

Watch it on the breaks. Would you prefer to cook or clean?

[Emma Lawrence] (10:33 - 11:12)

Look, I'd prefer, what I'm better at is cleaning. I'm not the best cook. Tom cooks and I do most of the cleaning.

So I'll do all the washing, soaking Harper's clothes. I don't love doing the dishes. If I had a choice in the kitchen, I'd probably rather do the cooking, but I'm trying, it's something I'm trying to, I'm trying to upskill myself and I have a few recipe books, try to pick a few new things each week.

But, you know, when we're in a rush, it's just kind of easier. And because all the time Harper's cleaning to be, I'll be the one to feed her, give her the bath. So Tom just cooks.

So it sounds like I'm making excuses that I can't cook, but maybe I'm just not that talented in the kitchen.

[Marie El Daghl] (11:12 - 11:17)

I suck in the kitchen. I'm totally team cleaning. What's a word or phrase you overuse?

[Emma Lawrence] (11:19 - 11:33)

I think I use like too much just to feel I've probably been doing it just to feel, I don't know, between sentences when I don't have anything to say. I don't know if I have been doing it now.

[Marie El Daghl] (11:33 - 11:36)

I haven't, I haven't noticed. I haven't noticed it.

[Emma Lawrence] (11:36 - 11:42)

Maybe it's just in general conversation. Not when I'm trying to sound intelligent.

[Marie El Daghl] (11:42 - 11:47)

Not when you're on the screen, you've never had feedback from a, from a boss going, dude, in that report, there were too many likes.

[Emma Lawrence] (11:48 - 12:05)

No, I haven't. No, I think it's just when I'm just chit chatting. Maybe I say like, I don't know what else would I, I probably swear too much.

That's not great. I've had to be careful now around Harper's now that she repeats everything. So I'm getting better at the swearing.

[Marie El Daghl] (12:07 - 12:09)

Have you ever lost it in a meeting?

[Emma Lawrence] (12:15 - 13:51)

No, I don't think so. No, to be honest, I don't know, in our industry, we don't have, I don't have that many meetings about anything. I mean, it's kind of go to the, I don't know, it's a strange industry where there are not a lot of, not a lot of formalities.

Even someone asked me recently about, you know, check-ins and catch-ups. We don't really have a lot of like a goal setting. I think actually they're trying to bring that in, you know, what are your goals, check-in with your supervisor, but you know, other friends in corporate roles who have that, we don't really have that.

So I don't think I've ever, yeah, lost it in a meeting. The only time I probably maybe lost it was, is the nature of this work is you always do contract work. So you do it like, I don't know, two, three, you deal, and then you do the next one.

And there's one time for various reasons, this contract was taking so long and it was coming upon 10 months and thinking, I just need to get this sorted. Like it's stressing me out. And I was trying to buy a house, all these things.

So didn't get angry, but I could just feel myself getting upset. And so that's probably the only, not crying, but almost crying, crying instead of so that's probably the only time, but never angry. I've never gotten angry in a meeting.

So I'd certainly get angry at home when I come home and blow up to Tom about things. Yeah, no, not in a meeting. I don't know if I'm an angry type.

[Marie El Daghl] (13:51 - 14:01)

You hold it together well in public. And then finally, were you offended that time we put up a poster of your brother modeling underwear in your office on top of your desk?

[Emma Lawrence] (14:04 - 14:34)

No, is it weird that that's up in my house now? No, I'm kidding. That's what I'm joking.

I'm joking. I'm joking. Absolutely joking.

No, not at all. It was funny. It was so funny because he had done some, I know it was a shoot.

It was a charity shoot of men of league. Yeah. I still remember what it looks like.

No, not at all. It was funny that colleagues that can do that, that means they're the good ones. They're the ones that you want to keep in touch with.

[Marie El Daghl] (14:34 - 14:38)

We had the best laugh, hey, in those days in that little office in Piedmont.

[Emma Lawrence] (14:41 - 14:54)

It was so funny. So definitely not offended. Enjoyed it.

And not enjoyed looking at my brother though, not in that way, but enjoyed your humor about it. Let's move on before I say anything that people think I'm weird.

[Marie El Daghl] (14:54 - 15:27)

Okay, let's go. You are in a super high pressure environment. As I mentioned recently in April, you took on this play-by-play calling gig with Triple M and you did your first in April, right?

So that must take the level of pressure to, well, it must take it up to like a thousand. It's very, it would be different to say just reporting or pre-recording news for instance. What did the pressure feel like before you went live?

[Emma Lawrence] (15:27 - 18:07)

I felt like there was an enormous amount of pressure. I mean, a lot of things I do are live. So working on the footy, you're on the sideline or you're hosting, you know, you're live and there's lots of eyeballs.

For example, State of Origin, there'll be 4 million people watching that. But I don't think I necessarily feel the pressure of those things. Maybe because I've been doing it for so long, but because this was new and I feel like everyone made a big deal of it, which was nice.

But at the same time, I felt the pressure because I said to Tom, maybe it was easier if I just flew under the radar and did it. And then everyone said, oh, look, by the way, on the weekend, Emma was the first female, but because Triple M had announced it and put out a press release, then I sort of got picked up and everyone knew I was doing it. So I then had a lot of people even afterwards say they specifically tuned in because radio is the type of thing where, so it's on radio with Triple M.

I mean, usually, unless you're driving in the car at that time and hear it, they're the people who will listen at that time. But there were people who said they watched, you know, they had it on the TV, but just turned on the Triple M app just to listen because they were curious to see how I would go. So, yeah, I feel an enormous amount of pressure.

And because being the first female, I knew there would be a lot more criticism for a few reasons. I mean, I think even still there's criticism of, we're a lot better, but females in general working on footy a lot of time, and it's just people commenting on social media, they'll say, oh, I'd rather have a bloke telling me about the footy, things like that. But also I felt pressure just to be, in terms of my voice, because the thing that had always held me back or was my biggest challenge in my career in journalism was my voice.

So I always backed my work ethic and my knowledge. But when I was young at Fox, I had to have a lot of voice training. So I think for two years, I paid for my own voice coach, and then Fox got one in at the time as well.

So that was always the thing. I mean, but some, the thing is, people either like your commentary and your voice or they don't. So, yeah, so I just had to accept, I had to accept that there will be criticism, and that's fine.

But yeah, I felt like there was a lot of pressure. So it was almost like once I did the first one, there was a bit of a weight lifted off my shoulders. And then from the second, I think I've done about seven now, maybe.

I think that it was a lot easier from there, just having got the first one.

[Marie El Daghl] (18:08 - 18:12)

How did pressure turn up in your body? Like what were you physically feeling, if anything?

[Emma Lawrence] (18:13 - 19:33)

I think when I get, when I feel that pressure, one, getting close to on air, because you can, I can get out of breath when you're a bit nervous. I guess that even happens with, before you do a life cross, if, you know, things have been playing up when you're a bit stressed. I think something that happens is you get out of breath.

So I, one thing I always try and do, like even before Origin Crosses, when I know there's 4 million people watching, if they say a minute to you, I just do a few deep breaths just to bring my heart rate back down, because I think you're more likely to stumble if you're out of breath. You can speak a bit quicker and it can be high pitch. So yeah, I think before that first one, I was sitting there and I just did a few deep breaths as well.

So that would be the thing I most notice would be like my heart rate increase and get a little bit out of breath, which I'll tell you, as you get further along pregnancy, it becomes even worse. So even now, as I walk 10 metres and I'm out of breath, so trying to do the calling and remain calm and have deep breaths, well, this baby's growing inside me. It's becoming increasingly harder.

But yeah, that would be probably the main thing, would be the heart rate and breath.

[Marie El Daghl] (19:33 - 19:39)

What were you, with your voice coaching, why did you need it? And what did the coaching involve?

[Emma Lawrence] (19:40 - 20:43)

Well, they had basically said I sounded too young and high pitched, which I did. I actually have clips still randomly saved on my Dropbox, which I came across recently and I did sound very young. I guess you just don't have that sense of authority if it sounds like an 11-year-old girl is reading you the news, you know, just so I had to work a lot on trying to make my voice sound deeper, basically.

But it's really hard to then not put it on and force it, because also I sometimes hear reporters and you're trying so hard and forcing that. And it's so, you just still have to speak naturally, like you're just, like we're just talking now, even when you're reading the news, you just have to, it's like you're having a conversation with someone, not like you're actually reading a script. So that's the art of it.

But yeah, so a lot of it involved, like I do my voice warmups every time before I go on air, still, even still, 12 years old, I'm having all of that.

[Marie El Daghl] (20:43 - 20:44)

Do you? Go on, give us a warmup.

[Emma Lawrence] (20:45 - 22:29)

Every time. So I do my diaphragm breathing. So which is I go, like four, you go, like out, hold, and then to try and open up your diaphragm and just help it expand.

And then some vibration exercises that go, but like all the different sounds of the alphabet or those sorts of things to get the vibrations. And I mean, I remember the coaches had told me all the technical reasons behind it, but it does. Like I, even I did something recently, I think I breezed through and I still did some, but I noticed, I'm a bit of a perfectionist, but I'll notice something even small when I think, oh, that sounds a bit high pitch there.

If I get excited, it can get a little bit high pitch. So yes, so much that goes into voicing things, but some, some reporters just naturally have a beautiful, deep, sexy broadcast voice and they just have that. And they don't need to, I don't know.

It's kind of like, I guess with sports, some people just have something naturally, others have to work at it, or some are prone to injury. So I have to do special warmups and exercises before they go out and play to avoid injury, but others have never had an injury in their life. Like it's so yeah, similar thing.

I just have to, I just have had to work at my voice and continually want to just be consistent with, doesn't even feel like a chore now doing my exercises. It just feels like it's something you do every day, like brush your teeth and I mean, so.

[Marie El Daghl] (22:29 - 22:59)

What does, what does it take to prepare for mistakes? Like you're, you're live on air, you're focused on every single move that's happening on that field. Surely one day you're going to stuff up or you're going to do, I don't know, you, you miss a call or you make the wrong call or you swear on air, I don't know.

Do you learn to prepare for those moments or no, you just, we'll just figure it out if it happens?

[Emma Lawrence] (22:59 - 27:10)

I think it's, it's all individual. So I have made a mistake. I, I don't know if it was in my fourth or fifth game.

I, because one of the biggest challenges of calling is knowing all, it's not even 17 now, there's a couple extra, so all 19 players on that list for the team, because you know all the big stars and I'll say I know the majority of players in the competition, but there's always a few fringe players, few players that have only played two or three first grade games and instantly when they pop up on your screen, you think, oh, is it that person?

And you just second guess yourself, but you have a team sheet, so you can look down and the beauty of radio, I guess, is that not that you ever want to make mistakes, but in TV, if you say the wrong name, everyone can see it there and they know that you've stuffed up. So I said the wrong name in a game and one of the boys, one of the nicer colleagues sitting next to me just sort of pointed at the other side, because I'd called number 14 for the wrong team, right? And it was someone who'd only played a handful of games, so I did make, and it's only once, but I did, I called the wrong name and my biggest, one of my biggest I don't know, issues or downfalls is that I'm a perfectionist.

I mean, it's my greatest strength, but it can be my greatest downfall and I've had to really, really work at just, okay, if something's not perfect, you make a mistake, just get over it. So I've had to really try, I've had to work so hard at that over the last, I don't know, or forever in my whole life, but particularly over the last sort of five years with work. So I think with that, for the next five minutes, I was a little bit rattled.

I was a little bit rattled, but I just had to think, okay, you just need to put it behind you and move on. Like it's, you just have to, and I tried to, again, just take some deep breaths. I could even feel myself getting a bit flustered.

Like I could feel like I was getting hot. My cheeks were getting red because I was so mad at myself and I called it the name once and no one would have even, honestly, no one would have noticed because they can't see it's radio, but I couldn't believe it. I just felt like almost for a minute, the world was like caving in on me that I made a mistake, but I just had to like, just calm myself down.

When, when the boys took over and spoke, then I just took a few deep breaths. And so I think I actually, in that moment did a pretty good job of just moving on and putting it behind me. It's like, it is what it is.

So what you make mistakes. And I've done sideline for so many years and I hear the commentators make mistakes about plays and stuff. Like it happens.

You might call the wrong name accidentally. So yeah, in that moment, I think I was actually okay with it, but there's other times that it can, things can eat away at me if I feel like I asked a dumb question or, but I think a lot of it comes down to too, for me, preparation. So if I, if I didn't get a good sleep or I haven't eaten well, had a lot of water and I'm not physically and mentally in a good state, that's when I find I can spiral and I just sit there.

I think about four or five weeks ago, I was hosting the footy show and asked what I probably thought I thought was a dumb question didn't come out that way. I wanted it to. So for the whole next segment or two for 20 minutes, I feel like I'm not even listening to what the boys are saying.

I'm just in my head going, I can't believe you asked the question like that. And I just spiraled a bit. And I'd had, I didn't, hadn't had a great sleep because Harper was up all night.

Like I think all of that, it's a whole preparation thing. Like it's like, I don't know, similar to athletes where they have to make sure that anyone, even CEOs, anything, if you do all that sleep well, eat well, all those sorts of things. And you're mentally in a good state.

When I feel good, if I make a mistake, I think, oh, it's okay. But it's when I don't feel good, I kind of let it get to me. That makes sense.

[Marie El Daghl] (27:10 - 27:41)

No, it makes perfect sense. And you know, what's funny when I do public speaking or presentation training, I talk a lot about preparation. And when I talk about, you know, you've got to clear your diary.

If you've got something big on and you're presenting at six, I don't want you taking meetings that any big meeting don't do it. Wake up on time, exercise, et cetera. And it feels so rudimentary.

Sometimes I feel people look at me like, really, is that it? And I'm like, yeah, yeah. It's a very, very big deal.

[Emma Lawrence] (27:41 - 30:56)

The preparation is huge. It's huge for your performance in any industry, really. But yeah, if I, if I have slept well, even if I've gone to the gym that day and I feel good, I might not have time to go to the gym.

I might just do a bit of mobility or stretching. Yeah. You can't be stressed even just packing things.

Like if I try to, it's not always possible. I'm busy, but I'll feel good at the footy if I've eaten something healthy rather than having a pie and chips, just because you feel bloated. And then when you're, when you're trying to voice something and have like a performance, really, that's what it is being on air is a performance.

And then your guts are churning because you had a meat pie. Like, I mean, that's not ideal. So there's all those things that come into it.

Even sometimes if I'm and I have too many coffees, then I feel like I'm a bit jittery or again, I kind of feel like, Oh, I've got pains in my tummy. Cause I, I'm focused on caffeine, you know? And it's, and then that's in the back of your mind, you just need to control everything that you can control for your preparation.

You need to do, there's always things that are out of your control, but if you've done everything that you can to perform the best, then like you're in a pretty good spot. So yeah, that makes all the difference for me. And I do, I don't know if you'd call it meditation or mindfulness, but I always try and I mean, I'd like to do it every single day, but I definitely do it before I go on air.

I'll just do some, yeah, like affirmations. I guess I have my sort of sayings. I would say I'm strong, I'm intelligent, I'm capable.

And I would think of might be before I go to work or sometimes even if I haven't done, I feel like I just need to just get in that sort of flow state of it. I might just literally go to the bathroom, just sit in the bathroom for a few minutes and do it and just give myself that evidence. Like I'm strong.

You remember a few weeks ago when I did everything and had no sleep and Harper was up and I went and killed it in that performance. Like, yeah, I'm strong. I got through all of that or I'm capable.

I remember when we had a lightning delay and I had to feel for half an hour, like I did that. I feel bad just giving yourself that evidence and, you know, which is not something specific just to this industry. I think that's something anyone can use really.

One of my old neighbors who's a, well, she's a friend and she's a career coach, I guess. She works for the Australian Graduate School of Management and does a lot of mindfulness and stuff in that. So she had given me some of those techniques, which I still use all the time.

So yeah, that's my routine. I do like try and sleep well, I do my mindfulness, I do my voice warmups. So I have to do all of that before I go and perform, whether it's calling a game, hosting a game, sideline, even if it's the sideline now, I've done that for 12 years.

That's the sort of easy job for me where it's not as challenging as calling a game, but even for the basic stuff, you still have to prepare.

[Marie El Daghl] (30:57 - 31:01)

So it doesn't matter how important or how high the stakes are for you, preparation is always important.

[Emma Lawrence] (31:01 - 32:33)

Yeah. So much of the performance comes down to the preparation and even, yeah, but I guess complacency can come into it because sometimes there are days for sideline because that's my least challenging role because sideline is where, for those that I guess don't watch footy, is where you're not the host. There's a main host who's like, hello and welcome.

They introduce all of the players. You're the person who sits on the sideline. When there's an injury, you tell people what happened.

When they walk off the field at the end, you're there to ask them how the game was. So you're contributing less. So it's usually like the first role people get in broadcast would be a sideline, then you progress to a host.

And if you want to call then you can call. So because for me, that's the easier role. Sometimes I go thinking like I'll prepare, but you just, you know, maybe you're not in the mood.

I'm like, oh, Harper's being sick from daycare or whatever. And then, I don't know, I might just, it might be fine. It's never bad.

Like I don't ever think I do a bad job. It might not be great. I might've asked a question I thought wasn't great or, but I probably went in a bit complacent because I thought, oh, I'm tired.

Harper's sick. It's freezing cold. Got to go out and sit on the sideline in Cronulla or something.

So if you're not mentally there, even if it's a job that you can do with your eyes closed, you still won't be at your best if you haven't done the preparation.

[Marie El Daghl] (32:33 - 33:11)

You know, it's on the complacency side, I reckon the time I've stuffed up or not done as well as I could have was on something really simple that I do all the time. But I walked in having had a chock-a-block day thinking, this is a walk in the park. I don't need to prepare.

I've done it a million times. And I can't remember, something caught me off guard and I didn't like the way I reacted or responded to it at this presentation I was doing. And then when I reflected on it, it was 100% because I walked in there without any of the mental or any of the preparation work.

Even just revisiting what I was going to talk about, I just walked in like, meh, I do this all the time.

[Emma Lawrence] (33:12 - 33:46)

It's true. And it's, I think it's natural. It's human nature to, when you're doing things that are more complicated, when it is the simple things.

And when there's a lot going on in life as well, when we're trying to juggle, you know, being parents and everything as well, like things get in the way. But yeah, I agree. Any time, all the difficult tasks, I feel like I've done a solid job of my calling and my hosting, but yeah, anytime maybe I walk away from something and think, oh, that wasn't the best.

Yeah. It's often the easiest task because I went in thinking, eh.

[Marie El Daghl] (33:46 - 33:46)

So true.

[Emma Lawrence] (33:47 - 34:31)

I don't need to, I haven't even looked at the rundown. I don't, I get there, I'm like, who am I interviewing? Oh yeah, that person.

Oh, have they been injured? Like, come on, we should have done this at home, you know, but because I think I could think of questions off the top of my head. Right.

But, you know, cause you're only doing an interview, it's pre-recorded that type of thing, but it's the same thing with anything, whether you're a former player, you're a host, whatever it is, honestly, I find whenever there's pre-records, people stuff up more because they know they can. Like, oh, I can do this again. And the amount of times people stumble on all of this, but when it's live, they don't, or if they do, they just get on with it and don't care because you have to keep rolling because it's live.

But when you know you can do it again, oh, it's not the end of the world if I stuff up, it's like eight takes, you know, sometimes for people.

[Marie El Daghl] (34:31 - 34:39)

Em, did call by, did play by play calling teach you anything about quick thinking and thinking on your feet?

[Emma Lawrence] (34:40 - 36:52)

Yeah, I think that was one thing that I think was probably a strength of mine, even though I hadn't called, I felt like with hosting, I was quick on my feet, you know, bouncing off someone or if something cuts out and you all of a sudden have to fill. So, you know, I feel like that was one of my strengths. I was great at when things didn't go to plan.

Like if the broadcast went to shit or there was chaos or like, I felt like that's when I did my best work. So I feel like it was always a strength of mine, but yeah, you just have to be, you always have to have something. You have to, you can never be lost for words, particularly on radio, because on TV, you could not talk for five seconds, maybe even longer because someone's, a player's taking a run because we can all see, we can just watch the TV.

You just sort of come in and out, float in and out. Whereas you're driving in the car, there can't be dead air. So the caller is talking nonstop.

So if a player puts up a kick, you can't just say, and Nathan Cleary's put it up and then wait, you can't like, everyone's like, you just have to, you have to keep talking. So you always have something to say. So in my practices, I did my demos over the off season.

That was one of the things I had to work on. I felt like I was reasonably good, but even just that you can't have three seconds of, you have to even just anything. You can describe how high it is.

It goes long and it goes deep. Oh gee, this is going to be a tough one for the fullback to take. Even if you have nothing to say, there's always sprinklings of, just say the score again.

He puts it up, you know, Nathan Cleary puts it up high as they're looking to extend their lead. They're up 18 nil. Say what stadium they're at, the weather, you just always have to say something.

So yeah, I feel like I was reasonably good at that anyway, but absolutely you have to think on your feet and there's always times, you know, I might call a try and then I get home and think, oh, I could have called it this way. I should have said this, but it doesn't matter now it's too late. You only have that moment to think of what to say.

So yeah.

[Marie El Daghl] (36:52 - 37:01)

Did anyone give you any tips or was there something you learned at the School of Sports Broadcasting that made you good at that?

[Emma Lawrence] (37:04 - 38:33)

Yeah, thinking on your feet. I don't know if they're like people, commentators had given me tips before I came in to do the play-by-play, but I don't know if there was anything in terms of thinking on your feet. I think it's maybe, I don't know whether it's harsh to say people either have it or they don't.

You can obviously work on it, but no one had ever really, there was never any advice about working on that or how you can do that. But I think that's what separates, not just the callers, the best hosts from the not so strong ones is that when everything goes to the rundown and it's hello and welcome, I'm going to say, here's Nathan Cleary. Okay, now let's go to the coach.

If everything's perfect to the rundown, they're fine. But it's as soon as, oh, okay, the coach is not there. Just talk for one minute, talk for one minute.

That's when they struggle, like not so thinking on your feet, it's a huge skill. But I also think it comes with practice. I think actually what helped me a lot in TV was doing radio, not just calling, but hosting because you host a two hour show, you just got to talk, talk, talk.

It's a vague rundown. It's like, okay, let's just talk about how good the Bulldogs are going. And they'll finish talking.

I've just got to come up with something. So then when I come to TV, I feel like that's a breeze because I've talked underwater for two hours. So I feel like practice, it's getting the miles in the legs helps.

But yeah, I don't know if there was ever any set advice from anyone on that.

[Marie El Daghl] (38:33 - 38:51)

Is there any listening involved in what you do? Not just listening as in through your ears, but is there anything outside of exactly what's happening play by play that you have to be watching that impacts the way that you call?

[Emma Lawrence] (38:52 - 38:54)

Yeah, as in, well, I listen to...

[Marie El Daghl] (38:55 - 38:55)

In the moment.

[Emma Lawrence] (38:56 - 38:57)

I listen to...

[Marie El Daghl] (38:57 - 38:57)

Yeah.

[Emma Lawrence] (38:57 - 39:09)

Or in the moment, in the moment. Anything else? Well, I mean, I listen to the boys, like I listen to what they're saying.

I mean, I have a producer in my ear.

[Marie El Daghl] (39:11 - 39:14)

So you're being spoken to while you're speaking sometimes.

[Emma Lawrence] (39:14 - 41:09)

They don't often do it while you're speaking. It's more when maybe one of the boys at the end of a set, I might say, oh, you know, they've kicked to the corners. Great first set from the Panthers.

You know, Wade Graham next to me might jump in and then the producer might come in and say, oh, a sideline reporter has an injury update. Can you go down to him? They try not to talk while you are talking.

That's a general rule for TV as well. But sometimes the producers on TV have to speak to you while you're talking, which is very distracting, very distracting, because if there's been a late change, for example, or that interview is not there, you can't because the next thing on the list might be, you know, throw to James Tedesco, but he's not ready yet. So I can't throw.

So I'm trying to talk. And if they talk in my ear, you can sometimes stumble because I'm trying to talk and someone's in my ear and like, I've got someone else in my ear. But so that can be hard.

Or, you know, producers also, yeah, they should generally talk while you're not talking. But occasionally, even if you're listening, someone's describing, oh, this is what this team needs to do in the second half. But if the producer is talking to you, it is difficult to actually properly listen to what your colleague is saying.

And so then that, you know, the expert next to you might have stopped talking. And the person is still going in your ear. Oh, okay, now I need to talk.

But like, you were just distracting me in my ear. And they could have said, he should be dropped. He's the worst player ever.

And then I didn't actually listen to that. I say anyway, and I don't react. So you have to try and listen to two things at once, listen to the person talking to you on air and the person talking in your ear, which is not something that is all the time, but it does happen.

[Marie El Daghl] (41:10 - 41:14)

And that's something that you only can get better at through experience, I suppose.

[Emma Lawrence] (41:15 - 41:55)

Yeah, it is. And it's funny, I usually don't like two things on at once, even we have music on at home. And Tom's trying to talk to me.

And you know, half is in the background. I can't, I can't don't turn the music off. I can't listen to you in the music.

How do you how do you actually host broadcasts? I don't understand how you and I said, I don't know. It's like I'm different when I'm on air.

I can like it's hard, but I have to listen to you've got the crowd, the expert next to your producer. But the minute there's too much going on at home, I can't you are in the car, you have to turn the radio off if you want to talk to me, you can't talk to me while the radio is on. I can't listen to both at once.

[Marie El Daghl] (41:56 - 42:06)

So I wonder if that's because you're always so hyper focused at work, and you've got, you know, a job you have to do when you do it. And then when you get home, you're relaxed. And you want to you know, you don't want to work when you're at home.

[Emma Lawrence] (42:08 - 42:17)

Maybe because it is a challenge for me anyway, maybe for others, it's not but to have to then tune in and tune out to different things. So which you have to do on air.

[Marie El Daghl] (42:17 - 42:33)

You know what, I'm at that age now. I'm that person that in you know, DJs walks up to the ladies and says, Excuse me, I can't hear myself think Can you put the music down? My kids are like, Mom, you're being a coward.

Please shut up. Yeah, I know. Sorry, but I am at that.

[Emma Lawrence] (42:34 - 43:14)

I am at that age. I'll be there. I'll be that soon.

I'll be that soon. Even like when I take Harper now, you know, if I take her out to lunch or something with a friend, she's 18 months, I feel like I can't. She's talking to me.

I'm trying to feed her but I'm not properly because I like to be really present in something. So I feel like if I then I'm talking to someone and she's there to my I'm not I'm not really probably catching up with you. I can't.

Maybe some people can absorb both at once. But I just like to be dialed in really present. So it's actually hard to be really present then and dialed into two or three different things.

[Marie El Daghl] (43:14 - 43:28)

You know, now that my kids are older, if I go out and my cousin or a friend brings their little kid, and they dare to tend to their child to turn their attention away from me. I'm like, you know what, call me when they're seven. Bye bye.

[Emma Lawrence] (43:28 - 43:43)

Yeah, I know. It's the age where I think now it's like, okay, you don't either you leave them at home if you're catching up with friends or if you want to go to the park or something, they have to be able to run around because I can't just Yeah, well, no, it's impossible.

[Marie El Daghl] (43:43 - 43:48)

It's so hard. You're at such a beautiful but difficult stage with your with your daughter.

[Emma Lawrence] (43:50 - 43:54)

Yeah. And I can't really take them anywhere.

[Marie El Daghl] (43:54 - 44:07)

And you know what, that's life and people just have to deal with that. We've all gone. I think anyone with kids has gone has gone through that or will go through that.

When you did your first call, you did it with Josh Reynolds. Is that right?

[Emma Lawrence] (44:08 - 44:09)

Yeah, yeah.

[Marie El Daghl] (44:09 - 44:21)

In your job in general, you're often reporting or commentating or whatever with ex players. What does that feel like? Is that intimidating?

Or was it intimidating at first?

[Emma Lawrence] (44:24 - 46:48)

No, not on the whole No, but only because because my brother played for the West Tigers for 15 years. And he always grew up around footy. I just kind of, it seems natural, like all of his mates, a lot of his mates then went on to play first grade, and I'd see them on weekends.

And it was around those environments, we'd go to games, we'd go in the sheds afterwards with the family. So I was always around that. So it's not like then when I started working in footy on TV, all of a sudden saw a footy player next to me and got really starstruck because I was always around that.

So no, there's probably only been a few instances where I mean, someone like Phil Gould. Yeah, Gus is, he's done everything in the game. I think he has his aura about him where I was nervous to do my first thing.

With Gus for sure. I feel like most former players know but someone like Gus because I mean, I didn't grow up in an era watching him. I grew up when he was coaching, coaching origin sides for New South Wales and that type of thing.

And then he's been on channel nine for years and years. So he was probably the one I was nervous to work with. But yeah, I never really feel like, oh, wow, it's pretty cool.

I'm working next to all these legends, which maybe I take it for granted. But the only other time I probably felt, wow, this is insane. I'm standing next to these legends was the very first grand final I worked on for nine.

So I'd worked on a few as a reporter, where you go in the sheds afterwards. I'd worked on a few for radio, but I was on the broad, like the host broadcaster channel nine, where you're hosting on the field, you're on the field the whole time, like you cannot get closer to the action than working for channel nine. So the first year I did that, I remember standing alongside Cameron Smith, who is arguably the greatest player ever.

And then Fatty, so Paul Voughton, who, again, I didn't grow up watching play, but I grew up watching the footy show, which I loved. So I remember thinking, wow, this is crazy. I'm sitting next to Fatty and Cam Smith.

This is pretty cool. And I almost got a little bit starstruck in that moment. So there are moments here and there, but on the whole, I don't find it daunting because I think I've just always been around that environment.

[Marie El Daghl] (46:49 - 46:59)

What about in terms of just knowledge? That's where I was coming from. Did you ever feel like, oh, they're ex-players, they know more than me, or did that affect the way that you reported?

[Emma Lawrence] (47:02 - 48:56)

I think, well, ex-players, they will always know more than you, right? Because they played the game, right? So you always have different roles.

They're there to analyse and you're there, whether you're as a reporter working for the newsroom, you're there to ask questions, or if you're hosting. So yeah, there's different roles for former players as there are to hosts and reporters. So I wouldn't say I felt daunting around the former players, but what I sometimes felt when I was younger, not so much now, but there was, because there weren't a lot of female reporters back then.

So I felt there was almost a bit of, the females maybe weren't taken as seriously and you had to work harder to prove yourself and prove that you knew the game, right? But it's wild in the sense that, well, okay, so just say I'm a female reporter and there's a male reporter, just a reporter, not a former player, just asking questions. Just because he's male, why does he know the game any better?

Like he didn't play NRL, for sure. For sure, Cameron Smith knows more than me because he played over 400 games. But what just, we're both reporters working for 9 News, like who says you know more about the game than me?

That type of thing. But all the reporter, when I was young coming through, so going back to say 2013, yeah, there weren't many female reporters. There are a handful.

There are a lot more now, sort of 12, 13 years on. So yeah, I didn't, I never felt it daunting or there was judgment from the ex-players, but it's more just like sort of the reporting world and it was almost harder to prove yourself against male reporters who were just mere mortals. Like we didn't play the game, but just because you're a bloke, that doesn't mean you know that game better than I do.

[Marie El Daghl] (48:56 - 48:56)

Yeah.

[Emma Lawrence] (48:57 - 48:57)

That type of thing.

[Marie El Daghl] (48:57 - 48:57)

Yeah.

[Emma Lawrence] (48:57 - 48:59)

Yeah, if that makes sense.

[Marie El Daghl] (48:59 - 49:28)

When I've watched you, which is one of the only times I'll ever watch anything on sport, because I stop and I go, guys, and everyone's like, we know, we know, you used to work with them. But you look really natural and I find that the energy and the chemistry is really natural and there's a lot of mutual respect there. As a viewer, that's what I see and feel.

Is that what you see and feel too in the moment?

[Emma Lawrence] (49:29 - 53:07)

Yeah, I think that's really important because I feel like the, well, not performance, but when I feel like it's a good segment, a good show, it's when you have great rapport with the fellow hosts or whether you're doing a sit-down interview with someone, it's all about the chemistry. It's more about that than about the question you ask. Like you could ask the dumbest question, but if they like you, they respect you, you get along well, you'll still get a good answer.

It's all about building that trust, but it takes time to build that. If people are watching me host something now or call a game, I've had years, so going back to say when I was, when would I have started? I did the little stint of commerce, but started working at Fox say when I was 23.

I've had 13 years, but a few years before doing stuff at the Eagles Unpaid, so say 15 years in the industry, being around, not to mention then years being surrounded by these people through my brother where I've had been around them. The amount of times I've interviewed these people, gone out to press conferences, done, it might be the hard-hitting stuff where coaches get sacked, it might be more the heartfelt sit down, someone's opening up about a family member that might have passed away. All these interviews you do over years and years and years, sideline interviews to build trust so people know you, trust you, respect what you do and how you know the game.

I feel like it's taken years to get to that point. Don't just all of a sudden now, it's like, oh, let's put you hosting the Sunday foot show. I've done 15 years of trying to build trust and build a reputation, but it is.

If you have that chemistry, it makes all the difference. Even before you do a sit down interview, remember one of the old presenters, I'm not saying he's old. He's older than me, Matt Russell, but he was one of my mentors.

He said the most important part of the interview is the five minutes before you actually start it because that time you have to relax them and build a bit of rapport with them is crucial. I find that because if they're uptight, they're not going to give you good answers. Even if you know, whether you know them or not, you just need to relax them, make them feel calm, even down to little things.

Maybe the cameras get annoyed with me, the cameraman, but I'll be very particular about the way that they are sitting, that players and talent are sitting, because if they're on a stool where they're upright and they feel awkward, they don't feel comfortable. They're not going to give me a good answer and open up. Let's relax them.

Let's have them leaning against something. You need to feel comfortable with the person, but in your body as well. You need to feel relaxed to open up.

There's all those little things that come down to it. Then you're just chatting with someone, if their kids are there, about their family. I don't know anything.

If you're sitting there and being awkward and the lights are getting set up and the cameras and you're like, won't be a sec, two minutes. You're just looking around, you've got nothing to say. You're not going to get a good interview because you're making them feel awkward.

It's all about the chemistry is everything. It's more about the chemistry than about how good you are as a reporter and asking the questions. Yeah.

[Marie El Daghl] (53:08 - 53:12)

What about if you do you do much emceeing? You did emcee some.

[Emma Lawrence] (53:13 - 53:14)

Yeah. Yeah. I do some.

Yeah.

[Marie El Daghl] (53:14 - 53:18)

How do you build rapport with a big audience?

[Emma Lawrence] (53:20 - 54:26)

That's hard. You know what? I get more nervous.

We'd leave for something in front of, so say there might be 600 people at a venue, but there's 4 million people watching Origin at home, but I can only see two people in front of me, like a cameraman and a lighting guy. Whereas because you can see everyone looking at you, that's why I think I get more nervous because you can actually see them and almost feel that pressure. I think it's harder, but I just try to everyone has their style.

I don't try to be funny. Some people will go down that way, but I feel like I'm more just be a bit more warm and heartfelt, that type of thing. I always try to then make eye contact and look and make it.

I don't like, often you have to get certain sponsors away or certain names. You do need a script as such, but I hate just reading, just standing up there and hello and welcome everyone. You're not talking to them.

You're just reading a piece of paper.

[Marie El Daghl] (54:26 - 54:27)

You can't connect with anyone like that.

[Emma Lawrence] (54:28 - 54:50)

Connect with people, put it into my words, make it conversational. Look at them like we're just sitting in a pub talking. Look down for when you've got to mention the people on the board who are here.

I think that that's important. I try to do that. Then even going to functions.

I noticed I hate going to functions where the MC just reads off the sheet.

[Marie El Daghl] (54:51 - 55:07)

Yeah, that bothers me too. Look at me. I can try to connect with everybody.

Even if what you're saying isn't profound, it doesn't really matter, but as long as you show that you're connected, happy to be there and make that effort to bring warmth to the room, I think it makes all the difference.

[Emma Lawrence] (55:08 - 55:34)

Yeah, you've got to bring warmth. Even when you try to, it's not always possible for time or you might not know them. I always try to, when you mentioned the dignitaries, if I know what table they're at.

Thanks for being here, so-and-so. I try to look at them to acknowledge them as well, rather than just read. They could be right in front of you, but it's usually not that hard to ask where's the board sitting, just so you can make that contact and it just makes it feel a bit more important and a bit more engaged with you.

[Marie El Daghl] (55:35 - 55:44)

Absolutely. Emma, I can hear Harper calling you in the background. She clearly doesn't understand how important comical is.

Come on, kiddo.

[Emma Lawrence] (55:45 - 55:53)

I was literally just had to message Tom and say, can you take him to the other room? I don't do that. I was thinking, is this a good microphone?

Is this getting picked up?

[Marie El Daghl] (55:53 - 56:15)

Don't do that. You know what? I used to take calls in the bathroom when I was working and my kids were screaming losing it and I'd be freaking out.

Oh my God, oh my God, I hope people don't hear it. But you know what? This is the reality of being a working parent and you go on and you do it and you do it really, really well and then you laugh about it and that's it and it's no big deal.

[Emma Lawrence] (56:15 - 56:24)

I thought, I'm like, would this will be okay because this is during her sleep and if she wakes up, Tom's home working at home today, but she's so clingy to me. She's just, she's going, mommy.

[Marie El Daghl] (56:24 - 56:34)

Oh, I love it. Oh, it's the best feeling though. It doesn't last forever.

Enjoy it. And you know what? I'm taking up her time.

So thank you, Harper, for giving us your legendary mum.

[Emma Lawrence] (56:35 - 56:40)

Thanks so much, Em. I gibber a lot. I hope that answered your question well enough.

[Marie El Daghl] (56:40 - 56:59)

No, it did. And there's, I think if nothing else, I think it's really important that people know and understand that even elite journalists like yourself on live TV still feel nervous, still feel self-doubt sometimes, have to prepare, et cetera. And that, you know, that's really important no matter what you're doing.

[Emma Lawrence] (57:00 - 57:15)

Yeah. Yeah. You always make mistakes.

You've got to learn not to be a perfectionist. I've tried to learn that. I have the motto about progress, not perfection.

Like you can still want to get better, but perfection, it's not a thing. And yeah, preparation is everything.

[Marie El Daghl] (57:16 - 57:18)

So thank you so much, my friend.

[Emma Lawrence] (57:19 - 57:24)

Thank you for having me. It was good to catch up. Sorry about the screaming.

And I hope to see you soon.